65th Aggressor Squadron F-35

F-35 unit & base selection, delivery, activation
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mixelflick

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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 16:05

marsavian wrote:
Big Sukhoi's with their big radar signature are in for a long day, penultimate Flanker (SU-35) or not.


Irbis-E powerful though it is will also be like a lighthouse to RWRs and will undo any RCS benefits they achieved. The Su-35 is a brute force approach, they really do need a working Su-57 to have a serious chance.


Yes, that radar is going to look like a flashlight in a dark room. What of the SU-35's passive detection systems though?

Is it fair to say they have the edge over the Eagle in that realm??
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 16:42

mixelflick wrote:
Yes, that radar is going to look like a flashlight in a dark room. What of the SU-35's passive detection systems though?

Is it fair to say they have the edge over the Eagle in that realm??

I would think not. EPAWWS should be superior to Khibiny in every way. Legion/ATFLIR should be superior to OLS-35 in every way except maybe packaging.
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wrightwing

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Unread post14 Feb 2019, 00:30

mixelflick wrote:
marsavian wrote:
Big Sukhoi's with their big radar signature are in for a long day, penultimate Flanker (SU-35) or not.


Irbis-E powerful though it is will also be like a lighthouse to RWRs and will undo any RCS benefits they achieved. The Su-35 is a brute force approach, they really do need a working Su-57 to have a serious chance.


Yes, that radar is going to look like a flashlight in a dark room. What of the SU-35's passive detection systems though?

Is it fair to say they have the edge over the Eagle in that realm??

No. The APG-63(v)3 and APG-82 are far superior to the Irbis, either in active or passive detection.
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Unread post07 Jun 2019, 01:57

Preparations Underway at Nellis for F-35 Aggressors
05 Jun 2019 Amy McCullough​

"​Nellis AFB, Nev., already is busy planning for the reactivation of the 65th Aggressor Squadron, even though it’s not slated to start receiving F-35 strike fighters until early 2022. “For the Adversary Tactics Group, this is a really big deal for us. Our mission set is to know, teach, and replicate the threat in air, space, and cyberspace. From my vantage point, we’re really good at knowing and teaching the threat, but we have some challenges in the replication area,” Col. Travolis Simmons, commander of the 57th ATG, told Air Force Magazine recently. “The F-35 is really going to assist in addressing some of those challenges.”...

...The unit, which will include 194 military personnel and 37 contract personnel, will require an additional 60,000 square feet of facilities and 300,000 square feet of ramp space, said Simmons. The exact military construction ask is still being worked out, but Simmons said the service will need to build one new hangar and more sunshades.

Between the 64th Aggressor Squadron’s F-16s, Draken International’s fleet of contracted Red Air, and visiting aircraft that fly in for large-scale exercises such as Red Flag, real estate already is at a premium at Nellis, but Simmons said the service doesn’t expect to have to increase the ramp space. “Obviously, at Nellis we’re working through that right now, where that space is going to be,” he said, noting the military construction projects likely will be funded in the service’s Fiscal 2021 budget.

Draken is on contract to fly about 5,600 hours of adversary air at Nellis per year, but the service is hoping to eventually increase that number to 7,500 hours under a follow-on competition. It’s not yet clear how many hours the 65th AGRS will fly, or how that will compare to the 64th AGRS already at Nellis or the contract air. Simmons said that will largely depend on the training need and what maintainers are able to support.

Although the F-35s coming to Nellis are some of the oldest in the Air Force, the addition of fifth generation aggressors will allow the service to replicate the full spectrum of potential adversaries. “Obviously, with the stealth capability that the F-35 is going to bring to the fight, I don’t have a way to replicate that right now,” Simmons said. “It’s going to be a huge increase into what we’re actually able to provide as far as a real threat representative asset for blue to train against.”

...When the service first announced that F-35s would be playing aggressors at Nellis, aviation enthusiasts quickly began sharing a photo of a black F-35, painted in the camouflage scheme of a Su-57, flying alongside an F-16C from the 64th Aggressor Squadron. When asked if it’s even possible to paint the F-35 without damaging its low observability stealth coating, Simmons said that’s something the Air Force is still looking in to. “No decision has been made on whether or not we’ll paint the F-35s in an aggressor scheme, but more to follow,” he said, noting the service is currently discussing the idea with F-35 manufacturer Lockheed Martin and “our experts” to “figure out what we’re capable of doing without impacting the overall capability of the airplane.”"

Graphic:
F35_F16_Nellis(1).jpg
Source: airforcemag.com

"A black F-35, painted in the camouflage scheme of a Russian Su-57, flies with an F-16C from the 64th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis AFB, Nev., in this artist illustration. The Air Force has not determined if the F-35s that will be assigned to the 65th Aggressor Squadron will have an aggressor paint scheme. Photo illustration from 57th Wing Commander Gen. Robert Novotny's Facebook page."


Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... ssors.aspx
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 03:46

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... -training/

The Air Force is reactivating the 65th Aggressor Squadron and moving 11 F-35A Lightning IIs to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, as part of a larger initiative to improve training for fifth generation fighter aircraft.


Looks like J-20s, rather than Sukhois, are the new standard.
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optimist

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 06:08

take the Russian stuff to a Russia thread please.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 06:42

weasel1962 wrote:https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1843434/air-force-to-reactivate-aggressor-squadron-for-f-35-training/

The Air Force is reactivating the 65th Aggressor Squadron and moving 11 F-35A Lightning IIs to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, as part of a larger initiative to improve training for fifth generation fighter aircraft.


Looks like J-20s, rather than Sukhois, are the new standard.



With the failure of the SU-57 and no additional 5th Generation Fighters on the horizon for Russia. I would assume that China will pretty much take over the Non-Western Fighter Market. With four options....two 4th Gen (JF-17 and J-10C) and two 5th Gen (J-20 and J-31).


So, hardly surprising the 65th will lean towards the latter two. :wink:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 06:50

The F-35 is about to become the Air Force's ultimate enemy!

QUOTE:

The aircraft is uniquely suited to replicate a wide range of threats with unprecedented high fidelity. I have talked with sources about this in the past and they have noted that the F-35's software alone should be able to be manipulated to replicate the sensor, sensor fusion, electronic warfare and communications capabilities of adversary threats.

In other words, applications could be designed to limit various aspects of the F-35's capabilities—and enhance others synthetically via data-link—to better mirror that of the aircraft it is masquerading as. In addition, it can be equipped with bolt-on radar reflectors that may be able to be manipulated to better replicate certain radar signatures of enemy aircraft, including those that aren't even stealthy at all.

https://taskandpurpose.com/air-force-f3 ... BPkvU52Fg8
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Unread post18 Dec 2019, 20:26

Congress Wants to Grow Organic USAF Aggressor Capability
16 Dec 2019 Amy McCullough

"The draft 2020 defense policy bill prohibits the Air Force from transferring any low-rate initial production F-35s to the adversary air role until the chief of staff submits a report to Congress detailing the service’s plan for modernizing its organic aggressor fleet.

The Air Force has two aggressor squadrons, one at Nellis AFB, Nev., and one at Eielson AFB, Alaska. Both fly F-16s, but the Air Force announced plans earlier this year to reactivate the 65th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis and transfer nine non-combat capable F-35As from Eglin AFB, Fla., to Nellis in an effort to improve training for fifth-generation fighters. The 65th, which previously flew F-15s as aggressors, was inactivated in 2014 due to budget cuts. The service also wants to move two more F-35s from Edwards AFB, Calif, to the 24th Tactical Air Support Squadron at Nellis for additional close air support training.

Specifically, Congress wants the report from Gen. David Goldfein to outline:
• “Potential locations for F-35 aggressors, including an analysis of installations that have the size and availability of airspace necessary to meet flying operations requirements; have sufficient capacity and availability of range space; are capable of hosting advanced threat training exercises; and meet or require minimal addition to the environmental requirements associated with the basing action.”

• An analysis of the costs and timelines associated with expanding and modernizing existing USAF aggressor squadrons, to include “upgrading aircraft radar, infrared search-and-track systems, radar warning receiver, tactical datalink, threat representation jamming pods, and other upgrades necessary to provide a realistic advanced adversary threat.”


“It is critical that the Air Force has the capability to train against an advanced air adversary in order to be prepared for conflicts against a modern enemy force, and that in order to have this capability, the Air Force must have access to an advanced adversary force prior to United States adversaries fielding a 5th-generation operational capability; and the Air Force’s plan to use low-rate initial production F-35As as aggressor aircraft reflects a recognition of the need to field a modernized aggressor fleet,” according to the policy conference report released on Dec. 9.... [then contractor stuff]

...“Aggressor squadrons have been honing the skills of Air Force pilots since the early 1970s,” Goldfein said in May when the F-35 decision was announced. “They provide a dose of realism in air exercises and their training value is crucial. These F-35 aggressor aircraft will keep us ahead of adversaries for years to come.”

The House approved the draft bill on Dec. 11 and the Senate is expected to pick it up this week."

Source: https://www.airforcemag.com/congress-wa ... apability/
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Unread post18 Dec 2019, 20:43

Time to watch Red Flag become a whole lot less lopsided.
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Unread post18 Dec 2019, 23:34

wrightwing wrote:
mixelflick wrote:No. The APG-63(v)3 and APG-82 are far superior to the Irbis, either in active or passive detection.


How so? Have to say I am not well informed on this one so it piqued my interest. Happy to take it to PM if this is OT.
Last edited by boogieman on 19 Dec 2019, 08:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post19 Dec 2019, 07:44

F-35 becomes Adversary... How scary would it be if F-35 becomes an enemy !? :doh: (Fear)
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