Can the F-35 match the PAK-FA

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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falcon.16

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Unread post13 Nov 2018, 16:36

spazsinbad wrote:A great line from a Bob Dylan song "It's all over now - baby Blue'. It's all over bar the shouting - let the shouting begin....
Russia’s Su-57 fighter jet outshines US F-22 and F-35 planes, says designer
09 Nov 2018 TASS

"MOSCOW, November 9. /TASS/. Russia’s cutting-edge Sukhoi Su-57 fifth-generation fighter jet incorporates the functions of the US F-22 and F-35 fighter planes but outperforms them, Chief Designer - Director of the Sukhoi Design Bureau Mikhail Strelets said in a - of the Zvezda - on Friday.

The fighter jet is capable of effectively accomplishing missions to destroy both air and ground targets as compared to the US aircraft that are focused only on specific tasks, the Sukhoi chief designer said.

"The F-22 was initially developed as an aircraft to gain air superiority. But eventually the Americans realized that it was essentially wrong to design the aircraft only for carrying air-to-air missiles and made an attempt to fit air-to-surface weapons into the existing configuration of its compartments. But the configuration of the compartments did not allow placing larger cargoes," Strelets said.

The designers of the Su-57 (PAK FA, the Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) faced the task of developing a multi-functional aircraft, he said.

"Regarding the load the plane can carry to its weight, the greater this ratio, the higher the plane’s quality from the viewpoint of the carrier. The same relates to the volume and the weight of the arsenal of weapons placed in its internal holds. And it can be said that by this indicator the Su-57 has no rivals among fifth-generation planes," Strelets stressed, noting that the PAK FA was also unrivaled by its acceleration capabilities.

"It so turned out and we didn’t choose this specially but if you sum up 22 and 35, you get the figure 57," [DOH] the Sukhoi chief designer said.

Su-57 fighter jet
The Russian fifth-generation Prospective Aviation Complex of Frontline Aviation (PAK FA) fighter jet took to the skies for the first time in 2010. As was reported in August 2017, Russia’s PAK FA fifth-generation fighter jet received the serial index of Su-57. The cutting-edge fighter performed its first flight with a new engine on December 5, 2017.

The experimental design work on the most advanced fighter jet should be completed in 2019 and its deliveries to the troops should begin at that time. As Russian Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko said earlier, the first batch for the Russian Armed Forces will comprise 15 fighter planes.

The Russian fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jet features stealth technology with the broad use of composite materials, is capable of maintaining supersonic cruising speed and is furnished with the most advanced onboard radio-electronic equipment, including a powerful onboard computer (the so-called electronic second pilot), the radar system spread across its body and some other innovations, in particular, armament placed inside its fuselage."

Source: http://tass.com/defense/1030166



Typical russian article for own consume, who nothing else than fanboys can believe.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post14 Nov 2018, 01:37

:lmao:
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mixelflick

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Unread post14 Nov 2018, 14:54

"It so turned out and we didn’t choose this specially but if you sum up 22 and 35, you get the figure 57," [DOH] the Sukhoi chief designer said.

K, so what is comrade crazy getting at here? Is he saying the SU-57 is really the best attributes of the F-22 and 35 rolled into one? Or is he just making an off color joke??

These Russians are really something. First they'll tell you the SU-57 is an F-22 killer. In fact it's soooo good, they're not going to mass produce it? Their primary partner (India) has pulled out, and their answer to that is that they really only pulled out of the first version, making it sound like they'll be on board for the (V.2?) version, the one with up-rated engines? Then we're told they're only ordering 12, but as soon as they're ready they're ordering.... more. But not mass producing them.

WTF is going on over there? Who's on first, anyone??
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 02:49

mixelflick wrote:"It so turned out and we didn’t choose this specially but if you sum up 22 and 35, you get the figure 57," [DOH] the Sukhoi chief designer said.

K, so what is comrade crazy getting at here? Is he saying the SU-57 is really the best attributes of the F-22 and 35 rolled into one? Or is he just making an off color joke??

These Russians are really something. First they'll tell you the SU-57 is an F-22 killer. In fact it's soooo good, they're not going to mass produce it? Their primary partner (India) has pulled out, and their answer to that is that they really only pulled out of the first version, making it sound like they'll be on board for the (V.2?) version, the one with up-rated engines? Then we're told they're only ordering 12, but as soon as they're ready they're ordering.... more. But not mass producing them.

WTF is going on over there? Who's on first, anyone??


Oh no, it was even worst.

The contract was finally for only 2 units, not 12.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249
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spazsinbad

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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 03:15

From above: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249 TO: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... %2F5480249
The Ministry of Defense and the "Dry" signed a contract for the supply of two Su-57
22 Aug 2018 TASS

"KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, August 22. / TASS /. The Russian Ministry of Defense and PJSC Sukhoi signed on Wednesday a contract for the supply of two fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets to the armed forces, the TASS correspondent reports from the conference room of the Army 2018. Terms of contract execution - 2018-2020..."

Source: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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element1loop

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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 03:35

Wery, wery small squadrons.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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marsavian

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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 03:48

Heh, one development aircraft a year just to keep the factory tooled up while everyone twiddles their thumbs waiting for the new engines to tip up ! Not Sukhoi's finest hour ! ;)
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 10:49

mixelflick wrote:"It so turned out and we didn’t choose this specially but if you sum up 22 and 35, you get the figure 57," [DOH] the Sukhoi chief designer said.


well would you look at that Su-27 + Mig-29 + Su-35 + Mig-15 = F-106
Lawn dart owns all you Russian planes.
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 11:07

I think the 2 most important factors in developing any high end military asset is ingenuity and money, you can argue political will in there but N.Korea has all the political will and not even a single trainer jet in development.

Russia has a lot of ingenuity, hate them as we may, its amazing what they developed with the kind of resources they have.
But on the economy side, well thats my question. Just how accurate are GDP readings when it comes to gauging military development.

Russia's GDP (nominal) is about the same size as S.Korea's at 11th, smaller than Brazil's, Canada's or Italy's. So from that perspective, their military strength and military technology is actually punching above it's weight class.

Their GDP (PPP) is just a tad bit below Germany's at 6th place. So when measured by that you could say that they're still punching above their weight but not by a considerable margin anymore. Some countries above them (Germany & Japan) simply dont have as much political will to develop high end weapons and others (China and India) still don't have the kind of experience the Russians have been enjoying since the days of the USSR.
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marsavian

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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 13:15

For a country like Russia which uses indigenous sources in its defence equipment this local buying power GDP list is more appropriate where the list runs as China, US, India, Japan, Germany, Russia. The Russians are not spending any dollars on their defence equipment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... y_GDP_(PPP)
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 13:19

You'd be a lot more amazed by China, not today's China but the Maoist China. It developed atom bomb, hydrogen bomb, launched its first satellite, was involved in military conflicts with both superpowers, all within a few years, in the turmoil of cultural revolution, when the country was isolated and its economy and trade barely a blip in the world stage. So I think there is plenty of human capital (ingenuity) and material wealth (money) around to develop military stuff, if a country wants to, especially when the basic science and technology is known, making it a lot easier.
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ricnunes

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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 14:25

zhangmdev wrote:You'd be a lot more amazed by China, not today's China but the Maoist China. It developed atom bomb, hydrogen bomb, launched its first satellite, was involved in military conflicts with both superpowers, all within a few years, in the turmoil of cultural revolution, when the country was isolated and its economy and trade barely a blip in the world stage. So I think there is plenty of human capital (ingenuity) and material wealth (money) around to develop military stuff, if a country wants to, especially when the basic science and technology is known, making it a lot easier.


Agreed.
As another example, lets look at Canada in the 1950's. A much smaller economy on the world stage then when compared to today but it was able to develop some very impressive aircraft like the CF-100 and even more impressive the CF-105 - while the later ended up being canceled this I believe, proves the point.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 14:32

falcon.16 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:"It so turned out and we didn’t choose this specially but if you sum up 22 and 35, you get the figure 57," [DOH] the Sukhoi chief designer said.

K, so what is comrade crazy getting at here? Is he saying the SU-57 is really the best attributes of the F-22 and 35 rolled into one? Or is he just making an off color joke??

These Russians are really something. First they'll tell you the SU-57 is an F-22 killer. In fact it's soooo good, they're not going to mass produce it? Their primary partner (India) has pulled out, and their answer to that is that they really only pulled out of the first version, making it sound like they'll be on board for the (V.2?) version, the one with up-rated engines? Then we're told they're only ordering 12, but as soon as they're ready they're ordering.... more. But not mass producing them.

WTF is going on over there? Who's on first, anyone??


Oh no, it was even worst.

The contract was finally for only 2 units, not 12.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249


Wow, I missed and just saw this. 2 aircraft through 2020?

On the one hand, that's absolutely abysmal. Just enough to keep the factory open I suppose, for another 2 years. Also brings their per plane squadron down from 12 to 2, and mission readiness likely down to just 1 airplane. Perhaps even less, but then again you can't get less than 1. Unless they entertain sending half an SU-57 up to do battle?

On the other hand, they sure kept their word: "No mass production..." LOL.

Indeed :mrgreen:
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 15:15

marsavian wrote:For a country like Russia which uses indigenous sources in its defence equipment this local buying power GDP list is more appropriate where the list runs as China, US, India, Japan, Germany, Russia. The Russians are not spending any dollars on their defence equipment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... y_GDP_(PPP)


Basically what you're saying is that PPP is a more appropriate barometer for Countries that have self reliant industries while Nominal terms are more appropriate for countries that import most of their equipment.

By the way, a little off topic, but when a country says they use X percent of their GDP in defense, is this always in Nominal terms? Most of the ones I see use Nominal terms.

I personally think Nominal is the more accurate barometer of a country's economic power. China has been on top of the PPP list for some time but lets face it. People don't consider China as the largest economy. Indonesia is #7 in PPP terms, above France, S.Korea, Italy and Canada but I don't think anyone considers Indonesia as a larger economy than the latter ones mentioned.

No offense to Indonesians here, Its massively under rated right now but I think It will be powerhouse soon.
PWC predicts ASEAN will replace some of the EU members in economic terms the coming decades.
https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/issues/econom ... -2050.html

And until recently, they had no reason to invest in their defense. China's land grabbing in the South China sea changed all that. The QUAD is already in place. Hopefully SEATO gets revived.
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 07:14

mixelflick wrote:On the one hand, that's absolutely abysmal. Just enough to keep the factory open I suppose, for another 2 years. Also brings their per plane squadron down from 12 to 2, and mission readiness likely down to just 1 airplane. Perhaps even less, but then again you can't get less than 1. Unless they entertain sending half an SU-57 up to do battle?


The RuAF wiki page is claiming 2 Su57 in 2019, and 2 more in 2020.

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