Russia to develop VTOL fighter

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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element1loop

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Unread post29 Aug 2018, 01:52

mixelflick wrote:This is awesome!

Resurgent Russia, indeed...

* Four new supercarriers on the way
* Navalised SU-57 right around the corner
* SU-57 morphing into 6th gen fighter, entirely skipping the 5th generation the US is building


You forgot to mention it was announced just this month by some rooskie big-wig with a magic wand that "Su57 will be ready for the soldiers in 2019".

:doh:
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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milosh

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Unread post29 Aug 2018, 19:14

mixelflick wrote:This is awesome!

Resurgent Russia, indeed...

* Four new supercarriers on the way
* Navalised SU-57 right around the corner


What super carriers? Four proposed carriers are light carriers (~40.000tons). No carrier variant of Su-57.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post30 Aug 2018, 03:13

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This is awesome!

Resurgent Russia, indeed...

* Four new supercarriers on the way
* Navalised SU-57 right around the corner


What super carriers? Four proposed carriers are light carriers (~40.000tons). No carrier variant of Su-57.



He was making a joke.... :crazypilot:
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weasel1962

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Unread post30 Aug 2018, 03:17

What is factual is Russia ordering 2 mistrals (with an option for 2 more). After the French delivery debacle, Krylov designed the 23000 ton Priboy LHD as the alternative which should be delivered by 2025 for the 1st 2.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post30 Aug 2018, 05:54

I've seen nothing that would make be believe they have the resources to build the Priboy LHD. Let alone have it in service by 2025...
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mixelflick

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Unread post30 Aug 2018, 16:46

element1loop wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This is awesome!

Resurgent Russia, indeed...

* Four new supercarriers on the way
* Navalised SU-57 right around the corner
* SU-57 morphing into 6th gen fighter, entirely skipping the 5th generation the US is building


You forgot to mention it was announced just this month by some rooskie big-wig with a magic wand that "Su57 will be ready for the soldiers in 2019".

:doh:


Ready for soldiers in 2019? Well, let's see if/how that's possible.

As I understand it, there are 12 prototypes now (not all flyable, let's call it 9 flyable). But there are a dozen on order. So... they're going to have (perhaps) 2 of these 12 delivered in 2019? I rather doubt they're capable of building 1 a month. So one or two to give to "the soldiers" next year. And this is after 8 full years of putting the prototypes through their paces? Complete joke. What airframe is flying with the new/2nd stage engines? I'm guessing that's one of the 9 flying prototypes?

Even assuming a full complement of 12 delivered in 2019, you have to almost feel sorry for them. They talked the SU-57 up way beyond what the reality was, poured a ton of money into it and... have almost nothing to show for it. It's actually worse than the ME-262 in WWII - at least a few of those airframes were combat capable. Highly unlikely that the 12 "production" birds have fully functioning weapons systems, radars etc. And even if all 12 work flawlessly.... 12?

The only question now is how long can Russia delude itself that it's 4 ++ generation birds are "good enough". They best hope there isn't some DS or Kosovo type of action where their machines are exposed as hopelessly obsolete and no match for the F-35/22. I can't imagine any country shelling out for up rated Flankers then. If they do, they'll be the most expensive collection of hair, teeth and eyeballs flying...
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weasel1962

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Unread post31 Aug 2018, 06:29

mixelflick wrote:
element1loop wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This is awesome!

Resurgent Russia, indeed...

* Four new supercarriers on the way
* Navalised SU-57 right around the corner
* SU-57 morphing into 6th gen fighter, entirely skipping the 5th generation the US is building


You forgot to mention it was announced just this month by some rooskie big-wig with a magic wand that "Su57 will be ready for the soldiers in 2019".

:doh:


Ready for soldiers in 2019? Well, let's see if/how that's possible.

As I understand it, there are 12 prototypes now (not all flyable, let's call it 9 flyable). But there are a dozen on order. So... they're going to have (perhaps) 2 of these 12 delivered in 2019? I rather doubt they're capable of building 1 a month. So one or two to give to "the soldiers" next year. And this is after 8 full years of putting the prototypes through their paces? Complete joke. What airframe is flying with the new/2nd stage engines? I'm guessing that's one of the 9 flying prototypes?

Even assuming a full complement of 12 delivered in 2019, you have to almost feel sorry for them. They talked the SU-57 up way beyond what the reality was, poured a ton of money into it and... have almost nothing to show for it. It's actually worse than the ME-262 in WWII - at least a few of those airframes were combat capable. Highly unlikely that the 12 "production" birds have fully functioning weapons systems, radars etc. And even if all 12 work flawlessly.... 12?

The only question now is how long can Russia delude itself that it's 4 ++ generation birds are "good enough". They best hope there isn't some DS or Kosovo type of action where their machines are exposed as hopelessly obsolete and no match for the F-35/22. I can't imagine any country shelling out for up rated Flankers then. If they do, they'll be the most expensive collection of hair, teeth and eyeballs flying...


Contract for 15 Su57 finally inked in Aug 22 with 1st unit delivery from 2019 (does not mean completed by 2019).
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -army-2018

As to how long 4++G are "good enough", ...A-10 and F-16 also comes to mind...

Countries do shell out for obsolete planes. J-7 (Mig-21) production ended in 2006, 15 years after desert storm (when the Mig-21 was already known to be way obsolete) and 39 years after the Israelis massacred Arab Mig-21s including 6 Syrian Mig-21s over Golan Heights. Mig21/J-7/F-7 is (according to Flight's world air force 2018) still 2nd in the most active combat aircraft with 1390 active unit (after the F-16 with 2,269). F-16 is still being ordered and produced...
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mixelflick

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Unread post31 Aug 2018, 14:53

"Countries do shell out for obsolete planes..."

I suppose you're right, as fielding something beats fielding nothing. These poor countries though will be paying for Mig-35's, SU-35's, Gripens etc. that will all be flying targets for F-35's proliferating around the globe (not to mention more advanced SAM systems). Going to be a short "war" when your entire fleet of 4++ gen birds is eating AMRAAM's.

It may be that instead of buying large numbers of Russian/Chinese aircraft, they'll instead opt for very small numbers and invest more heavily in S-300, 400 or 500 systems. That's what Iran is doing, albeit moreso due to sanctions vs. anything else. Come to think of it, Iran is the undisputed king of obsolete fighter platforms..

1.) 1970's era F-14's
2.) Early 1980's era Mig-29
3.) 1960's era F-4's
4.) 1960's era F-5's

And their airfields will be toast, courtesy of Tomohawk and other joint standoff weapons.

Conclusion? They could really use Russia's new VTOL fighter... :)
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