Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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white_lightning35

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Unread post15 Mar 2018, 14:36

Hey if this is posted enough, eventually the media will be right. Flawless plan
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loke

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Unread post16 Mar 2018, 23:15

Israel’s Lockheed Martin F-35I "Adir" is reported to have made its combat debut during strikes conducted against Syrian air defence systems last month. The action was mounted following a border clash that culminated in an Israeli air force Lockheed F-16 being shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

The F-35I's suggested offensive debut has not been confirmed officially, with Israeli air force commander Maj Gen Amikam Norkin having classified all operations with the type.

Air force officials have described the stealth fighter as a "super-intelligence collector" and a "game-changer", pointing to its ability to acquire and distribute data to other assets in the air and on the ground.


Full story: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ut-446817/

The capabilities of the F-35 are far above and beyond other fighters'....
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zerion

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Unread post29 Mar 2018, 18:06

REPORT: ISRAELI STEALTH FIGHTERS FLY OVER IRAN

1 minute read.
By YASSER OKBI/ MAARIV HASHAVUA,JPOST.COM STAFF

Two Israeli F-35 fighter jets entered Iranian airspace over the past month, Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida reported on Thursday. The act is a signal of heightened regional tensions, especially in light of recent Israeli military attacks in Syria, including against Iranian bases in the country.

Sources quoted in Al-Jarida stated that two stealth fighters flew over Syrian and Iraqi airspace to reach Iran, and even targeted locations in the Iranian cities Bandar Abbas, Esfahan and Shiraz...

http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-I ... ran-547421


Skeptical I am.
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marsavian

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Unread post29 Mar 2018, 19:32

Notice has been served ...

Sources quoted in Al-Jarida stated that two stealth fighters flew over Syrian and Iraqi airspace to reach Iran, and even targeted locations in the Iranian cities Bandar Abbas, Esfahan and Shiraz.

The report states that the two fighter jets, among the most advanced in the world, circled at high altitude above Persian Gulf sites suspected of being associated with the Iranian nuclear program.

It also states that the two jets went undetected by radar, including by the Russian radar system located in Syria. The source refused to confirm if the operation was undertaken in coordination with the US army, which has recently conducted joint exercises with the IDF.

The source added that the seven F-35 fighters in active service in the IAF have conducted a number of missions in Syria and on the Lebanese-Syrian border. He underlined that the fighter jets can travel from Israel to Iran twice without refueling.
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Unread post29 Mar 2018, 19:47

They should have checked a map before claiming Bandar Abbas as an un-refueled target

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Unread post29 Mar 2018, 22:21

SpudmanWP wrote:They should have checked a map before claiming Bandar Abbas as an un-refueled target

They didn't. Your pic alludes that it can indeed travel to little beyond the Iran's border and back. Just not Bandar Abbas. But it was "can travel from Israel to Iran". Unless they meant twice back and forth, which would be clearly too much.

Ok, Bandar Abbas can be done, but requires refuel.

It makes very little sense overall. Just need to take a look at the countries whose airspaces it would need to violate. Why do it for this? Certainly you couldn't sneak in a tanker.
Last edited by magitsu on 29 Mar 2018, 22:43, edited 4 times in total.
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Unread post29 Mar 2018, 22:39

Long range strike missions, spoofing S-400s, this is kind of what the F-35 was built for, not pointless mock dogfights with legacy fighters as the ill informed general press obsess about ! 8)
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 03:11

SpudmanWP wrote:They should have checked a map before claiming Bandar Abbas as an un-refueled target.]


Depends on mission and profile. If it is intended as undetected high-altitude VLO recon, the pilots can fly for best range speed and best range altitude, both ways, for the mission, with 4 slammers each.

That 760 nm radius is an inefficient intercept dash speed radius, as far a I'm concerned, a lot less than acheivable radius if flying for best specific consumption, at all times, at all altitudes, in all prevailing conditions, each way. Which fortunately is ideal for lowest observability.

Time to accept that F-35A VLO recon can do that.
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 03:27

“That 760 nm radius is an inefficient intercept dash speed radius...”

And you base this on what knowledge of the jet?
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 05:21

quicksilver wrote:“That 760 nm radius is an inefficient intercept dash speed radius...”

And you base this on what knowledge of the jet?


I could ask same re conditions, profile and conservative assumptions as to what constitutes that 760 nm air combat radius?

Somehow I doubt its' definition involves 'flying on the numbers' for best specific-consumption air-speed at best-range-altitude, to obtain maximum unrefuelled RECON range. Which is what the IDF did to get that far, and back, unrefuelled. Then leaking it for effect ... and for bragging rights.

On what knowledge other than that poster of air combat radius, do you dispute the IDFs admission of extraordinary achievable RECON range?

Ask them as they say they did it, no matter what an LM combat radius poster claims.

Absolutes like "760 nm" don't exist for range numbers, in practice, but they do exist for specific consumption numbers for given start weight, ISA, FL and cruise KTAS.

Those are the only numbers that matter in this, and that's what the mission planning software and the pilots were concerned with. They could not give a stuff what an LM graphic says the F-35A's range is. Nor would I.

IAF would have had several runs a this at 85%, 90℅, 95% range, returning unrefuelled, before committing to this radius for recon mission(s). They would have looked for the combination of ideal winds aloft, to get them there, and back, with the desired fuel margins for each part of each leg.

They will now know what conditions aloft they need to make a strike, with a cruise weapon, or a power-assisted glide-weapon.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 08:24

However you are guessing - which is all anyone can do given none of us (including you) have access to the F-35A Flight Manual. IF you do have access then please post the PDF here. Thanks. How do you know the IAF does these "85%, 90℅, 95% range" runs? Winds aloft can be critical if strong, jetstreams are significant if blowing at altitude, many variables in this.

BTW the Israelis along with all F-35A operators know the performance figures - whether these have been finalized or provisional we also do not know. There are margins for error also which could be significant depending on route taken.
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 09:19

spazsinbad wrote:However you are guessing - which is all anyone can do given none of us (including you) have access to the F-35A Flight Manual. IF you do have access then please post the PDF here. Thanks. How do you know the IAF does these "85%, 90℅, 95% range" runs? Winds aloft can be critical if strong, jetstreams are significant if blowing at altitude, many variables in this.

BTW the Israelis along with all F-35A operators know the performance figures - whether these have been finalized or provisional we also do not know. There are margins for error also which could be significant depending on route taken.


I have no problem with what you say there, and am well aware of the range of variables, as are you, QS and Spud, I'm sure. However I'm not 'guessing', just pointing-out implications of the Israeli claim(s).

Plus pointing out the thorough inadequacy of buying into or insisting on adhering to a glib 760 nm range radius figure. Like all such official figs they are very conservstive rules-of-thumb, for certain A2A combat configs, assuming certain flight conditions (very much typical and non-optimised ones), and probably also includes a substancial allowance for an A2A exchange phase and fast egress, prior to return, otherwise it would be thoroughly meaningless and misleading as an A2A COMBAT radius. It's roughly valid, if you have an A2A fight, also.

So this Israeli recon range claim, should not be much of a surprise, to any one who's being realistic about the range implications.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 09:37

I don't 'believe' the Israelis 'claimed' anything. 'Sources' to a newspaper did but given this: "...Israeli air force commander Maj Gen Amikam Norkin having classified all operations with the [F-35i] type...." I'm not considering it at all until official.
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 10:11

Sure, someone in Kuwait wanted to say look what we can do.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post30 Mar 2018, 10:42

IF we are free to speculate we may ponder the use of CFT/EFT, developed with LM help (perhaps installed in Israel?). I recall there was a holdup at manufacture end for the last couple of F-35i, so perhaps the plumbing/attachment points for stealthy CFTs/EFTs were a bit problematic? However I'm just guessing because someone in Oz wants to do that for me.
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