Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post28 Feb 2018, 08:46

Note that by "decisions", I mean a policy that actually affects the country as a whole and not the "decision" to stick his foot in his mouth by tweeting something stupid.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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XanderCrews

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Unread post28 Feb 2018, 15:05

Corsair1963 wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:At least Trump is, for the most part, making good decisions (and did not cancel the F-35).



LOL Well, at least not this week. Yet, next week who knows???


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Trudeau goes on family vacation to Trump Tower
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optimist

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Unread post01 Mar 2018, 09:46

SpudmanWP wrote:Note that by "decisions", I mean a policy that actually affects the country as a whole and not the "decision" to stick his foot in his mouth by tweeting something stupid.

did you miss the debt that the tax cut has created? It was a good, short term way to pump the economy from a recession, but this isn't the case.
http://www.crfb.org/blogs/budget-deal-c ... llion-debt
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post01 Mar 2018, 10:12

Don't live up to your name much, do you?

As the Reagan tax cuts showed, more money will come in than was allowed to be calculated by the CBO.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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loke

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Unread post03 Mar 2018, 19:05

Canada exports nearly 90 percent of its steel to the U.S., the most of any country.
Canada accounts for 41 percent of aluminum imports.
Tariffs could impact the interconnected supply chain of many industries including autos and this could hurt Nafta renegotiation talks.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/trumps- ... nafta.html

Given how Treadeuao reacted to Boing's complaints, how will he react to this?

How can he possibly purchase any US fighter jets (be it Lockmart or Boing) if The Donald moves forward with this?

The world is becoming more and more surreal -- in the 70s they needed LSd to obtain this effect, now it suffice to read the latest news from US/Canada...
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blindpilot

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Unread post03 Mar 2018, 21:29

Canada exports nearly 90 percent of its steel ... 41 percent of aluminum ... and this could hurt Nafta renegotiation talks.
cnbc


Actually this should provide a healthy "Oh Sh##"!" reset to the NAFTA renegotiation talks, and help them along. That's a typical Trumpian technique.

What does this have to do with the F-35 you ask? Well it's a gentle reminder of what a "Gorilla in the Room" is, when folks (countries) start thinking they can do whatever they want, and inflate their own self importance. What was it that happened to the Arrow again. Where is that aircraft now? Oh yeah, the Gorilla ate it ... never mind.

Trade wars are ugly and everyone gets hurt, but they do bring reality to the front very quickly and very clearly, and provide a reset. Just because one loves his little brother dearly, doesn't mean he can't slap him up side the head, every now and then. :D :roll: ... and remind him of what big brothers at the foster home would be like. Hopefully they can still fight shoulder to shoulder when the school yard bully shows up.

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white_lightning35

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Unread post03 Mar 2018, 23:38

blindpilot wrote:
Canada exports nearly 90 percent of its steel ... 41 percent of aluminum ... and this could hurt Nafta renegotiation talks.
cnbc


Actually this should provide a healthy "Oh Sh##"!" reset to the NAFTA renegotiation talks, and help them along. That's a typical Trumpian technique.

What does this have to do with the F-35 you ask? Well it's a gentle reminder of what a "Gorilla in the Room" is, when folks (countries) start thinking they can do whatever they want, and inflate their own self importance. What was it that happened to the Arrow again. Where is that aircraft now? Oh yeah, the Gorilla ate it ... never mind.

Trade wars are ugly and everyone gets hurt, but they do bring reality to the front very quickly and very clearly, and provide a reset. Just because one loves his little brother dearly, doesn't mean he can't slap him up side the head, every now and then. :D :roll: ... and remind him of what big brothers at the foster home would be like. Hopefully they can still fight shoulder to shoulder when the school yard bully shows up.

MHO,
BP


Rather harsh statements, IMO.

However, what I don't understand is why some actions are "responsible for trade wars", while other similar actions are just normal economic procedures. Why so many double standards? What draws the line? Surely other countries in the world have tariffs, right? Or is only the US capable of such evil?
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count_to_10

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 01:58

“Trade war” is mostly just a description of what happens when trade relations break down. Mostly it’s just dumb behavior.
Policy wise, tariffs are a way of favoring a special interest over the general public — in this case, a small number of steel and aluminum producers over a much larger number of manufacturers and all of their customers. Economically, if another country is “dumping” subsidized commodities on you, you should just take it as a gift. If you are worried about the defense concerns of the production in your country going out of business, mandate that your defense industry buy domestic. As I understand it, US price for steel is already much higher in the US than in our allies.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

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sferrin

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 02:05

optimist wrote:did you miss the debt that the tax cut has created?


Well, no, it's called "spending more than you have" that causes debt. You know, the way Obama doubled the national debt during his reign? Letting me keep more of my own money isn't the crime you seem to think it is. We just need to slash the real expense: entitlements.
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count_to_10

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 02:35

optimist wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Note that by "decisions", I mean a policy that actually affects the country as a whole and not the "decision" to stick his foot in his mouth by tweeting something stupid.

did you miss the debt that the tax cut has created? It was a good, short term way to pump the economy from a recession, but this isn't the case.
http://www.crfb.org/blogs/budget-deal-c ... llion-debt

There isn’t actually much historical evidence of tax cuts resulting in lower revenue or tax increases leading to higher revenue, regardless of what static analysis would predict. Taxpayer behavior generally conspires to even things out for the typical change in tax law. The things that would actually increase revenue (like eliminating credits and deductions) are wildly unpopular.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

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blindpilot

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 05:31

white_lightning35 wrote:
blindpilot wrote:...
Actually this should provide a healthy "Oh Sh##"!" reset to the NAFTA renegotiation talks, and help them along. That's a typical Trumpian technique....
Trade wars are ugly and everyone gets hurt, but they do bring reality to the front very quickly and very clearly, and provide a reset.


Rather harsh statements, IMO.
...


Yeah Probably is a bit harsh. I would have worded it differently except ... that was the point. The "Kum ba Yah politically correct" dance that comforts the stupid, seems sweet, but it can be very harmful. Sometimes a reality reset is needed to get things back in perspective. Usually such reality resets are "harsh" reminders, we like to ignore. Do so for too long ... and it'll slap you in the face much harder down the road, every time.

We have the same internal delusions within the US itself. The 25 year old kid living in grandma's basement has free internet and free food. Grandma doesn't mind. She loves the company and care ... EXCEPT if grandma is 99 years old, and not in good health ... our 25 year old is in for a rude awakening, when the bank takes back her reverse mortgage home. He needs to get a job while he has the safety net ... or ... ouch that can be harsh!

MHO,
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optimist

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 08:49

Wow, what you guys have been conditioned to think. You will need entitlements before you die. I know social justice is an alien concept to some, but it is how a functioning society works.

I guess you missed the world recession and the needed stimulus spending too. You know, from the deregulated financial system. The same thing trump is redoing with the banks now.

Old people are such a drain on the economy. As are the sick and disadvantaged. I thought the US had that under control, when they built more bridges for people to live under? Cutting health care to a point where few can afford to use it anyway.
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blindpilot

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 16:01

optimist wrote:Wow, what you guys have ...


I believe we have drifted :offtopic: :offtopic:

To the thread, reality will sort itself out in the Canadian F-35 purchase. Not sure how that will look since we don't have a final decision, but there will be consequences wherever you push the jello, something will squish out somewhere.

Again, I disagree, but :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: Perhaps on another forum.

MHO,
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mixelflick

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Unread post04 Mar 2018, 17:48

Interesting dynamic in both the Canadian and Indian acquisiton process. The Indians absolutely need the F-35, but can't have it. The Canadians can have the F-35, but don't think they need it.

Nobody wins. Not Canada. Not India. And not Lockheed Martin..
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ricnunes

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Unread post06 Mar 2018, 00:02

Well, these are polls and so they are worth for what they are but it seems that for the first time that the current JT government got elected that the Liberals are at a disadvantage and a quite considerably so compared to the Conservatives as it can be seen in the image below:

Image

Or here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... l_election

Perhaps there's hope that this Canadian charade/"soup opera" quickly ends in 2019 with Canada finally selecting its only and obvious choice, the F-35?
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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