The F-35’s Martin-Baker Ejection Seat

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spazsinbad

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Unread post09 Nov 2017, 22:44

This forum has an amazing array of information - but searching for it can be easy - if you get THE KNACK.

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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ricnunes

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 13:05

spazsinbad wrote:This forum has an amazing array of information - but searching for it can be easy - if you get THE KNACK.


I believe you misunderstood my post(s).
Yes, I was aware of the three (3) LM/Martin-Baker fixes to allow small lightweight people to be ejected safely from the F-35. I remember to have read the post (also posted by you) which you kindly linked to (and thanks again for this) in the past and I done this as early as 2015 (when it was posted) or as late as 2016 (I can't accurately remember).
What I was asking for (although I admit, in a joke tone - perhaps a failed joke attempt on my part) was the status of those same three (3) fixed and from what I could gather the short answer from your part is ONGOING :wink:
(yes, I understand that such fixes take time to implement).
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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 15:31

Well specifically there are IIRC two posts about one aircraft having been 'fixed' at the time of that post with fixes ongoing.

I'd rather SEARCH the forum than pull the 'dags' (bad info) out of my behind so here is one example using implement :
"...3. The head support panel and the ejection seat sequencer switch for lighter weight aircrew members are currently being tested as part of the seat qualification which is planned to be completed in October 2016. It is expected that modification kits to retrofit seats currently in operation will be available by November 2016 for F-35 fleet implementation.

4. Testing will also support the design and certification of a lighter version of the Generation 3 Helmet Mounted Display System and allow the production of these helmets to begin with initial deliveries scheduled to begin in October 2017. At that time, the services will be able to implement all three parts of the complete solution to lift the weight restriction for pilots less than 136 lbs and mitigate neck injury risks for all F-35 pilots....
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=27447&p=316768&hilit=implement#p316768

Because I have a collection of PDFs made from articles about this ejection seat issue (I'm interested) I can CHEAT: using IMPROVED I get this for example:
"[18 Sep 2017] ...New F-35s will have the somewhat improved seats, but all but four of the 235 jets that pilots are flying today have yet to be modified, according to program office figures." viewtopic.php?f=60&t=27447&p=376660&hilit=improved#p376660

"..."...Martin-Baker said on 15 May [2017] it has started installing modification kits to the injection seats and that the first seat was modified, and flown, on 4 May. USAF spokesperson Colonel Patrick Ryder told Jane's on 15 May the plan is to retrofit 14 aircraft per month across the USAF. The estimated time for the modification of each seat, he said, is four to five days." viewtopic.php?f=60&t=27447&p=368049&hilit=retrofit#p368049


OTHERWISE I get this info dated 16 May 2017
"...The Air Force has developed a plan to install the improved seats across the fleet for the few pilots who might
need them. The service hopes to retrofit at least 14 aircraft each month, with contractor teams needing between 4 and 5 days to install a single seat. Any F-35As that go for maintenance at depot-level will automatically receive the seat regardless of other scheduling. Though there isn’t a fixed time frame for the modifications, the overall plan is for the jets at Luke Air Force Base to get the upgrades first, then those at Eglin in Florida, and finally the planes at Hill in Utah. The Navy, Marine Corps, and foreign operators have not yet announced whether they will upgrade to the new seat...." http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/10 ... -35a-fleet
Last edited by spazsinbad on 10 Nov 2017, 16:01, edited 3 times in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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ricnunes

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 15:56

Thanks again spazsinbad :D
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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 16:03

:mrgreen: Heheheh THE KNACK also refers to 'other social ineptitude' such as "searching the F-35 subsection of F-16.net". :devil: :doh:
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post12 Nov 2017, 08:08

spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: Heheheh THE KNACK also refers to 'other social ineptitude' such as "searching the F-35 subsection of F-16.net". :devil: :doh:



I bow in the presence of your awesome searchfullness... :notworthy:
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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ricnunes

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Unread post12 Nov 2017, 13:40

steve2267 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: Heheheh THE KNACK also refers to 'other social ineptitude' such as "searching the F-35 subsection of F-16.net". :devil: :doh:



I bow in the presence of your awesome searchfullness... :notworthy:



Let me put things in this perspective:
There are two "search engines" here in F-16.net:
1- The f-16.net built-in search
2- spazsinbad (TM) "search engine"

Why should I use search engine no.1 if search engine no.2 is far more effective?? :mrgreen:
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Unread post12 Nov 2017, 15:09

ricnunes wrote:Let me put things in this perspective:
There are two "search engines" here in F-16.net:
1- The f-16.net built-in search
2- spazsinbad (TM) "search engine"

Why should I use search engine no.1 if search engine no.2 is far more effective?? :mrgreen:

Maybe spaz is a flock of trained pidgeons?
https://archive.google.com/pigeonrank/

(I jest, I jest :) )
Russia stronk
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spazsinbad

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Unread post25 Jan 2018, 01:14

This FLOCK OF SEAGULLS [nyet da band] found a thread to plonk this info... trained monkey pilots would do a betta job.
FY 17 DOD PROGRAMS [DOT&E] F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)
Pub Jan 2018 for 2017 DOT&E

"...Pilot Escape System -- In May 2017, the Air Force and Navy announced that they were lifting restrictions on lightweight pilots flying F-35s because the fixes that were put in place to address ejection seat problems were working.

-- The JPO provided DOT&E with the F-35 System Safety Risk Assessment (SSRA) it conducted on the additional risk-reducing actions to the pilot escape system during recent testing. The JPO SSRA was informed by modeling and simulation of ejections in off-nominal conditions, along with limited ground subsystem testing with a manikin and the Head Support Panel (HSP), to assess the overall risk of injury as “Low.” The testing showed that the changes incorporated into the seat and provided to the pilot’s equipment have generally reduced the risk of neck injury to the pilot under the normal ejection conditions.

-- The JPO also provided DOT&E with an SSRA supplement from the U.S. Air Force Technical Airworthiness Authorities (TAA). In that document, due to a lack of test data in off-nominal conditions, the TAA assessed that the level of risk of injury to lighter-weight pilots (103 to 135 pounds with the Gen III Lite helmet, and 136 to 150 pounds with any Gen II/III/III Lite helmet) was categorized as “Serious” due to the absence of test data with the new changes to the ejection system and the potential for head and neck injury during off-nominal ejections at airspeeds less than 190 knots. The TAA determined that it may be possible for the head to miss the HSP for these lighter weight pilots and the result could be either death or total disability. However, the risk was reduced sufficiently during the ejection testing in nominal conditions for the Air Force to remove the restriction preventing pilots weighing less than 136 pounds from flying the F-35.

-- The program began retrofitting fielded F-35s with the modifications to the ejection seats in 2017 and plans to deliver aircraft with the upgraded seat in Lot 10, starting in January 2018. The Gen III Lite helmets will be included with the Lot 10 aircraft delivery, and will be delivered starting in November 2017. If these delivery timelines are met, the Air Force may open F-35 pilot training to lighter-weight pilots (i.e., below 136 pounds) as early as December 2017.

-- Part of the weight reduction to the Gen III Lite HMDS involved removing one of the two visors (one dark, one clear). As a result, pilots that need to use both visors during a mission (e.g., during transitions from day to night), will have to store the second visor in the cockpit. However, there is no designated storage space in the cockpit for the visor; the program is working a solution to address this problem.

-- The program has yet to complete additional testing and analysis needed to determine the risk of pilots being harmed by the Transparency Removal System (TRS), which shatters the canopy first, allowing the seat and pilot to leave the aircraft) during ejections in other than ideal, stable conditions (such as after battle damage or during out-of-control situations). Although the program completed an off-nominal rocket sled test with the TRS in CY12, several aspects of the escape system have changed since then, including significant changes to the helmet, which warrant additional testing and analyses. DOT&E recommends the program complete these tests, in a variety of off-nominal conditions, as soon as possible, so that the Services can better assess risk associated with ejections under these conditions."

Source: http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2 ... f35jsf.pdf (0.5Mb)
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Mar 2018, 00:40

Here's where the LIGHTWEIGHTS gather no moss.... All the HOOhaa about Lightweight Pilots has been justifiedly worth it.
Goldfein: Solutions for the Pilot Crisis Center on Diversity :doh: [LIGHTENING Pilotes!] :devil:
07 Mar 2018 John A. Tirpak

"​The Air Force’s pilot shortage crisis offers “an opportunity for bold moves” to build the service’s diversity while correcting the growing deficit in aviators, Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein said Wednesday at the conclusion of a daylong summit on the problem.

Those moves might include grouping minority pilot trainees together at flight school in order to have a built-in support system, building tighter relationships with community groups that promote minorities and women in aviation, making better use of Civil Air Patrol community outreach, and having pilot trainees meet with local schoolchildren as they make stops on cross-country flights....

...Working groups brainstormed ways to attract minorities to the USAF pilot community, which is overwhelmingly male and white, and far less diverse than USAF’s enlisted force. Gen. Dick Cody, the retired former Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, pointed out that the overall cohort of youth eligible for military service is shrinking, and that USAF will have to tap the full cohort to fill its needs. Participants noted that most women and minorities are simply not aware of flying opportunities with the Air Force, or don’t consider the career because they don’t see people like themselves pursuing it....

...“There has to be involvement in the community, and it has to start early,” Goldfein said. He also concluded USAF does have such initiatives but they are not “scaled” to deliver the numbers needed. He was pleased to hear of the “untapped resources” such as pilots who could talk to school kids while on cross-country trips. A sleek trainer jet parked on a tarmac is “a great visual,” for kids, Goldfein said, especially if a woman or pilot of color is standing with it. He pledged to better “use what we have” in the Air Force to conduct more outreach....

...Goldfein also heard from women pilots who asked that he make some administrative changes that would make it less punitive for them when they become pregnant, which is a typical time when women leave the pilot corps. They could still serve as simulator instructors and perform staff duties, for example, after reaching a point where they can no longer fly, they said, and airline representatives said some of them offer women the choice to decide when they will stop working. At least one woman pilot said their commanders had, inappropriately, asked about their “reproductive plans,” and such treatment made them feel unwanted among their peers....

...The Air Force is taking steps to be more institutionally friendlier to women pilots, Golfein said, finally getting around to designing flying gear and equipment uniquely designed to fit women. “They’ve been using men’s equipment for years,” he said, and it’s time to rectify that....

...“We have to get this right,” Goldfein said, adding that he hopes the “gender, race, and faith diversity of the top three” service officials — himself, Secretary Heather Wilson, and CMSAF Kaleth Wright — helps set something of an example for the force. Diversity is “part of the fabric of the Air Force,” Goldfein said. “It is part of the fabric of who we are.”" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleth_O._Wright

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... rsity.aspx
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Mar 2018, 01:17

:devil: CHAIN is RATTLIN' - Here Come De Debil - check the stats! 8)
Aviator vying to be Navy’s first female CO of an aircraft carrier
09 Mar 2018 Victoria Leoni

"A naval aviator is in the running to become the Navy’s first female commanding officer of an aircraft carrier in the service’s history. Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt is the executive officer of the carrier Abraham Lincoln, one of 11 aircraft carriers stationed around the world. She reported to the Lincoln in September 2016 and is the first woman [I don't think this claim is true - I'll check] in naval history to hold the title of executive officer aboard a nuclear warship. Now Bauernschmidt is looking to make history again as the Navy’s next aircraft carrier commanding officer, the first ever female to do so.

“It’s by no means easy,” Bauernschmidt told FOX6 in Milwaukee. “You’re competing with people who are just as smart as you, just as accomplished as you, doing the same things you’re doing – it’s hard.” As part of the CO competition, Bauernschmidt is required to spend 15-18 months as the commanding officer of the San Diego-based amphibious transport dock Anchorage. Her performance there will help determine whether she gets selected to command an aircraft carrier....

...Bauernschmidt is a Milwaukee native and 1994 U.S. Naval Academy graduate. She was designated a naval aviator in 1996 and has accumulated more than 3,000 flight hours. She earned the 2011 Admiral Jimmy Thach and Captain Arnold J. Isbell awards for tactical innovation and excellence, and in 2012, she was presented the Battle Efficiency award. [does not that last one go to a ship or squadron?]

Source: http://hrana.org/news/2018/03/aviator-v ... t-carrier/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post18 May 2018, 05:47

Five page PDF attached is about ALL ejection seats with the F-35 Mk16 and future Martin-Baker seats highlighted as per...
Photo: "This sequence shows the function of the Martin-Baker Mk18 seat from a test rig. The company has developed the seat to meet the emerging Next Generation Escape System requirement and it’s also designed to be fully compliant with all USAF T-X programme contenders. Martin-Baker" AirForces Monthly June 2018 Issue 363
Attachments
GraphicOnly BANG Seats AirForces Monthly Jun 2018 TIF.jpg
BANG Seats AirForces Monthly Jun 2018 pp5.pdf
(995.38 KiB) Downloaded 92 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post08 Sep 2018, 22:04

This is the most recent thread concerning the HOO and the HAA about the deficiencies (since fixed) of the F-35 ejection seat. I was surprised to see this information in the F-16C/D Flight Manual so put it here for context about how good the ACES II seat is. NOT. The graphic below is from the two page PDF excerpt also attached below (for easier reading I guess).

Flight Manual F-16C/D BLOCKS 50 AND 52+
https://www.filefactory.com/file/34ia8o ... Manual.pdf (16Mb)

Click the chart below to zoom in for easier reading anyway. TEXT excerpt is eye-opening. Makes aviation writers look like ning nongs I reckon. EJECTION SEATS are not a cure all and must be used as the manufacturer recommends but YMMV.
"...WARNING
The ACES II ejection seat was designed for body weights in the 140 to 211 pound range. There are additional ejection injury risks associated with body weights outside this range.

For body weights less than 140 pounds, limb flailing, less seat stability, and more severe drogue chute opening shock (ejection modes 2 and 3) are concerns. The risk of injury associated with limb flailing and drogue chute opening shock increases for ejection above 420 knots. This injury risk also increases as body weight decreases below 140 pounds.

For body weights greater than 211 pounds, limb flailing, seat structural failure, and parachute landings are concerns. The risk of injury from limb flailing is high for ejection above 400 knots. The seat leg braces frequently deform during ejections above 500 knots; this deformation has led to seat side panel failures (and unsuccessful ejections) during 600 knot ejection tests. The risk of injury during parachute landing is three times the average. These injury risks also increase as body weight in creases above 211 pounds.

Wind blast exerts medium force on the body up to 400 knots, severe forces causing flailing and skin injuries between 400600 knots, and excessive force above 600 knots....

...WARNING
Failure to remove night vision goggles (NVG) prior to ejection may cause serious injury. If unable to remove NVG, a proper ejection body position (head back against the seat headrest) reduces the chance of injury from the NVG...."
Attachments
F-16acesIIejectionSeatCriteria.gif
F-16acesIIejectionSeatCriteria Chart+Text PP2.pdf
(97.63 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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