DT-III aboard USS America

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Nov 2016, 21:48

Another sound man screen grab recording 'wild thing' with his air guitar....
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SoundManRecorderUSSamericaF-35BtestNov2016crop.png
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post20 Nov 2016, 22:22

spazsinbad wrote:Methinks you misunderestimate the airframe strengthening and modifications required for an F-35B to be EMALSed or STEAMflung. And it is not necessary. You have forgotten that when the F-35B returns for a VL that is another KPP which requires full internal weapon load plus adequate fuel for a missed approach (in bad weather).


In my hypothetical musing, I was specifically ruling out STEAMflung. I was thinking that since EMAL is supposed to impose significantly less stress on the airframe, that the necessary modifications might be tolerable / minimal.

I saw two possible advantages:
  1. Increased payload
  2. Less deck space required for launch

I understand that it [EDIT: "it" meaning EMALS] is not necessary to meet established KPPs / requirements. Regarding the KPP of VL with max internal load only... well, if you EMALs with a full combat load then have to immediately return, it would be understood you have to dump stuff into the water prior to VL. Oh well.

I was more curious if the deck space regained by EMALS launch would support increased # aircraft aboard ship or increased launch tempo. That is, if EMALs only requires 300' rather than 600' for STO, could that extra 300' support additional aircraft, other operations, or increased launch tempo.

When USS America was being designed, was EMALS even a glimmer in the eyes of ship designers?

[ Edited: 20161120 @ 16:03 MST]
Last edited by steve2267 on 21 Nov 2016, 00:04, edited 1 time in total.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Nov 2016, 22:56

'steve2237' did you really mean to say this? "...I understand that it is not necessary to meet established KPPs / requirements..." You betcha it is required. However the KPP can be modified by a process that all agree upon. There is info on this forum and in my PDFs about how this particular F-35B STO for USMC was made so.

You can tell I'm reluctant to go over old ground when you need to read old material. The SKI JUMP is truly something for nothing with minimal deck space taken up forward. This has been explained by an OLD bold USMC Hairier Pilote named Art NALLS (search word). Helicopters can use the first part of the rising ski jump and a ski jump reduces STO distance, leaving deck space behind for Vertical landing ops if need be.

You seem to have ignored the fact that on CVF the F-35B can STO with the maximum load possible - no EMALS required.

And again: any extra added weight to make the F-35B EMALSable means that extra weight has to be subtracted from the VL bring back KPP. Why not keep the B as is and add a ski jump? The USMC state that a ski jump takes away helo spots from their main mission - so be it.

Do I need to do searchs? All these 'thought experiments' have been covered. An upgraded engine is in the works but how it may be applied to the B with minimal impact otherwise is has not been made known so far. Remember the B has not only the LiftFan but ducting for roll posts & rotating exhaust - how will they be impacted by an upgraded engine?
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Nov 2016, 23:04

The two DVID videos above concatenated here with WILD THING (Jimi Hendrix then original):

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post20 Nov 2016, 23:08

spazsinbad wrote:'steve2237' did you really mean to say this? "...I understand that it is not necessary to meet established KPPs / requirements..." You betcha it is required. However the KPP can be modified by a process that all agree upon. There is info on this forum and in my PDFs about how this particular F-35B STO for USMC was made so.

Yes and no. It depends on what "it" is. :mrgreen: What I meant was "I understand that EMALS is not required to meet requirements" for an F-35 to launch off of an LHA / CVN carrier. In my hypothetical, I was musing that EMALS would free up an additional 300' of deck space which could be used for other things, or to increase launch operations/tempo.
spazsinbad wrote:And again: any extra added weight to make the F-35B EMALSable means that extra weight has to be subtracted from the VL bring back KPP.

Good point.
spazsinbad wrote:Do I need to do searchs? All these 'thought experiments' have been covered. An upgraded engine is in the works but how it may be applied to the B with minimal impact otherwise is has not been made known so far. Remember the B has not only the LiftFan but ducting for roll posts & rotating exhaust - how will they be impacted by an upgraded engine?

Sorry for the musings. Thanks for the pointers to the old threads. More reading.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 00:48

OH NO NOT ANOTHER 152 PAGE PDF - this time about SKI JUMPs and BENEfits thereof with bits missing from 4.4Gb PDF.
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SkiJumpINO21nov2016forumPP152.pdf
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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 06:37

Marines Pound USS America’s Deck With F-35Bs: VIDEOS!
20 Nov 2016 Colin Clark

"ABOARD THE USS AMERICA: Somewhere near San Diego on the Pacific Ocean, the Marines have been putting F-35Bs and their pilots through a series of qualifications and tests with an eye to better understanding just how the small-deck carriers, the F-35s, V-22s and combat-ready Marines can best function together.

With a careful eye on both China and Russia, the Marines spent today (Sunday) executing what they are calling the Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demo....

...In an email to reporters, Capt. Sarah Burns said 12 F-35Bs from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 and Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron One (VMX-1), two MV-22B Ospreys, one UH-1Y Venom and one AH-1Z Viper took part. The Marines had never flown more than six F-35Bs from a ship before.

On top of that, 19 Marine pilots carrier qualified in the past three weeks. For perspective, eight Marine F-35B pilots carrier qualified over the last four years, Burns says. Before today’s proof of concept, seven F-35Bs from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 (VX-23) and VMX-1 and personnel from 12 agencies did this:
◾ First integration of ALIS SOU version 2 aboard a ship
◾ Removed and replaced the entire engine, drive shaft and lift fan of an F-35B over 12 days, including during heavy seas. The plane flew while we were there.
◾ First live ordnance operations aboard a ship
◾ First F-35B integration with AEGIS
◾ First integration with MV-22B Ospreys (2), a UH-1Y Venom and an AH-1Z Viper aboard a ship
◾ Block 3F software was flown aboard ship for the first time at sea.
◾ The first Royal Navy pilot was carrier qualified"

PHOTO: http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... 113128.jpg (0.5Mb)

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2016/11/mari ... bs-videos/

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10xF-35BsUSSamerica20nov2016.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 16:54

In case you were wondering what SOU is.. here is an ALIS overview

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http://www.sae.org/events/dod/2015/atte ... _scott.pdf
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sferrin

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 17:25


[/quote]

Didn't realize they took 10 of them out there. Thought they were only sending 7. :drool:
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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 17:39

They actually took 12. This was a follow-on "proof-of-concept" demo after DT-3.

This time they did a complete engine, lift fan, and driveshaft swap.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 18:42

Thanks 'SWP' - great explanatory PDF.
Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) Overview
09 Dec 2015 Scott LaChance, ALIS Chief Architect

"ALIS Integrated Services ALIS Is the Key Operations and Maintenance Management System

• Warfighter –Mission Planning, Scheduling, Qualifications

• Operations Management –Aircraft and Personnel Records, Maintenance Vehicle Interface, Tech Data, Support and Test Equipment, Low Observable Health, Work Orders

• Sustainment Support –24/7 Customer Support, Sustaining Engineering, Performance Based Logistics Management

ALIS Is an Integral Part of the Air System –Is NOT on the Air Vehicle"

Source: http://www.sae.org/events/dod/2015/atte ... _scott.pdf (0.45Mb)
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F-35 ALIS Integrated Services in USE.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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jessmo111

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 19:38



Didn't realize they took 10 of them out there. Thought they were only sending 7. :drool:[/quote]

The most ever on a ship.



https://youtu.be/AlS-wGunHzA
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 20:25

'jessmo111' was highlighting a video above from this URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlS-wGunHzA

To make video URL visual these [ ] things are added to text - the last ] will be left off so that the text string can be seen.

[youtube]AlS-wGunHzA[/youtube

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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ngroot0

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Unread post21 Nov 2016, 21:47

The 12 aircraft (F-35B) for the Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demo:
Code: Select all
BF-01            VX-23
BF-05    SD-65   VX-23
168312   MV-52   VMX-1
168717   MV-55   VMX-1
168718   MV-56   VMX-1
168732   CF-01   VMFA-211
168838   CF-02   VMFA-211
168839   CF-03   VMFA-211
168840   CF-04   VMFA-211 (BuNo from database)
169024   CF-06   VMFA-211
16....   CF-10   VMFA-211 (probably 169027 or 169026)
169028   CF-11   VMFA-211
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Unread post22 Nov 2016, 04:52

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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