F-35/F-22 and SPIKE managment.

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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jessmo111

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 10:35

spike manage.jpg
Wheel spokes = threat radars. its like the plane is RF self aware.
Todays quote by the good general gave us a new Buzz word. SPIKE Management:

"
One area that the Chinese are almost certainly lacking is what Air Combat Command commander Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle once described to me as “spike management.” Fifth-generation aircraft such as the F-22 and F-35 have cockpit displays that indicate to the pilot the various angles and ranges from which their aircraft can be detected and tracked by various enemy radars. The pilots use that information to evade the enemy by making sure to avoid zones where they could be detected and engaged. It is a technology that took decades for the United States to master—through a lot of trial and error."

I noticed this was posted some place else, but I felt the topic alone was unique enough to warrant its own thread.

1. As a former Pilot, how beneficial is it to be able to see a visual overlay of the bad guys radar range, and how is this and advantage over an OLD RWR?

2. Having this feature would mean that the F-35 keeps a digital memory of nearly ever radar on the planet. How is this possible?

3. Is this clear evidence of the U.S. superiority in both LO and Radar domains? In order to be able to read or sniff out most of these signals, you have to be able to detect the signal 1st. How can you detect an LPI threat, if you don't even know that the platform or the signal is there?

Edit I forgot the link

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... alth-17315
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I always wondered if we would get more info on the wheel spoke type of formations on the F-35s screen.
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jessmo111

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 10:58

This chart makes more sense now. I wondered how the Plane know where all threats are.
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Dragon029

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 14:14

jessmo111 wrote:1. As a former Pilot, how beneficial is it to be able to see a visual overlay of the bad guys radar range, and how is this and advantage over an OLD RWR?

2. Having this feature would mean that the F-35 keeps a digital memory of nearly ever radar on the planet. How is this possible?

3. Is this clear evidence of the U.S. superiority in both LO and Radar domains? In order to be able to read or sniff out most of these signals, you have to be able to detect the signal 1st. How can you detect an LPI threat, if you don't even know that the platform or the signal is there?


I'm not a pilot, but:

1. It would be very beneficial to know, let alone visually see where the bad guys could see you from. Situational awareness is arguably the biggest factor of success when it comes to modern air combat; knowing roughly where your enemies can and can't see you from is one of the ultimate methods of having supremacy in situational awareness.

2. F-35s (prior to going off on a mission) are loaded up with Mission Data Files, which are plugged into the jet when the pilot jumps in. These don't contain data on everything in the world, but rather threat data (as well as general intelligence) for a specific region - Asia for example (the specifics in terms of what constitutes as a region and what specific data is held on that region is classified). These MDFs are generated at facilities on the US mainland as well as (soon) facilities in partner nations. Australia (in due time) for example will be able to generate MDFs so that if the US facilities are backlogged and (eg) Indonesia has modified some of their radars, Australia can generate new MDFs to recognise them.

3. I would say so; detecting LPI isn't impossible, it's just more difficult. As for gathering the data, this is why the US constantly has aircraft like the Rivet Joint deployed overseas around Russia and China.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 14:30

On point three, the F-35 is, as far as I know, the only plane whose systems can and have detected LPI radar emissions. I think a good rule of thumb would be of you can't emit LPI then you can't detect LPI. The EW suite on the F-35 is the most advanced self protection system ever put on a fighter.
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wrightwing

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 15:02

The ESM systems have not only known threat libraries, but the ability to analyze unknown signals, and catalog them. Based upon this analysis, the spike management features, can still provide the pilots with information about areas, to avoid.
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les_paul59

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 18:52

This is the benefit of decades of research, and building stealth planes.

The basement dweller biggest mistake is thinking that China and Russia could encounter and fix all the mistakes in their first go around.

The U.S. has been perfecting these types of systems for so much longer.
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popcorn

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Unread post11 Aug 2016, 22:38

Safe to sayl that massive effort invested in building those F-35 data files has paid off.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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stereospace

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Unread post14 Aug 2016, 16:46

Obviously, anyone responding to this post needs to be very careful what they reveal.

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