You go, girl!!!! and cockpit and lights

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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Unread post07 May 2015, 20:34

Salute!

This from local mullet wrapper:

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/military/to ... 4513?tc=cr

May be pay walled, so I could cut and paste.

+++++++

Second:

Maybe a bunch of Cee's yesterday and today on the short rwy at Eglin. They had a light on the nose gear that I have not seen before. Is this an indicator for the LSO?

Hard to spot a Cee from the other two.

Gums sends...
Last edited by Gums on 08 May 2015, 13:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post07 May 2015, 22:07

Affirm.....AoA indexer lights....or at least that is what I'm assuming you are talking about, and I'm also assuming the F-35C has them (as every other carrier capable airplane does). Dual function.....one, at night it is about the only way paddles/LSOs can tell if you are on-speed since they can't use visual gouge of your aircraft's attitude (can't see anything but the lights at night). Secondly, at least in the Hornet, it is an alternate way of determining if your gear are down and locked, in case you have erroneous unsafe gear indications.

edit: of note, that is entertaining that she is actually using her helmet bag as....you know.....a bag for her helmet. I have never, and have never seen anyone ever put a helmet in a helmet bag before. Maybe that is an AF thing though.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 00:47

Yes on the 'AoA' lights (red for fast - green for slow - orange for GO! - no for Optimum AoA indication). At night the LSO can see the nav lights also and he will be familiar with their configuration for gauging attitude / speed etc. The AoA nosewheel lights - AT SEA - indicate that the HOOK is DOWN. IF not seen then.... HEAD ON videos from NIMITZ show the Indexer Lights FLASHing when the HOOK is UP during their carrier approaches. Ashore for FCLP there will be a switch to be made (in the A4G the groundcrew made this switch) that allows the external indexer lights to work unblinkingly with the HOOK UP. Now during FCLP the LSO can see the correct indications etc. Anyhoo here is UmmaMauMow looking like I think I would look after my first F-35 flight. :mrgreen:

VIDEO of F-35C LIGHTs in ACTION on this thread - so perhaps the external AoA indexer lights are always ON? Perhaps it is a test thing or pilot controlled? BEST to view the VIDEO on YOUTUBE at highest quality to see the AoA Indexer Light FLASHING RED [so as seen with hook up aboard NIMITZ - the flashing red is showing 'FAST hook up' {I'll guess F-35C pilot goes fast to have energy for the flare/aero braking landing} all the way down - so I'll guess this is the 'new' indication that the HOOK is NOT DOWN? Otherwise we see BRIGHT landing light which is possibly InOp on that second F-35B landing? OR SOP that 'landing light not/used during day? Lots of unknowns back here in Ozland : viewtopic.php?f=60&t=26847&p=284817&hilit=indexer#p284817

[Addition:] IF the pilot is not already wearing helmet (perhaps on deck) then he / she has a bag. HELMUT (oz parl spellin') has a brand new bag! For sure I would be werycareful with my expensive helmut - if I had one. :mrgreen:

On the milestone thread the story is told of 'Grinder's' career - this quote from the story: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=27298&p=290579&hilit=Grinder#p290579
"...“Flying is a great equalizer,” she said. “The plane doesn’t know or care about your gender.”

Caption: "Lt. Col. Christine Mau takes a moment to relax after her first flight in an F-35A.
ANGELA STEVENSON | Special to the Daily News : http://www.nwfdailynews.com/polopoly_fs ... -pilot.jpg


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Last edited by spazsinbad on 08 May 2015, 02:47, edited 5 times in total.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 01:04

Women know all about bags. Smart. Wouldn't want to accidentally drop that $400K bauble. :D
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Unread post08 May 2015, 02:49

spazsinbad wrote:Yes on the 'AoA' lights (red for fast - green for slow - orange for GO! - no for Optimum AoA indication). At night the LSO can see the nav lights also and he will be familiar with their configuration for gauging attitude / speed etc. The AoA nosewheel lights - AT SEA - indicate that the HOOK is DOWN. IF not seen then.... Ashore for FCLP there will be a switch to be made (in the A4G the groundcrew made this switch) that allows the external indexer lights to work with the HOOK UP. Now during FCLP the LSO can see the correct indications etc.


Was just speaking for the Hornet/SH specifically, guessing your series of sea going steeds were a little different. In mine, the AoA indexers flash if the hook isn't down (provided you don't have the hook handle oride switch thrown) and are steady if it is. Agree about external lights and attitude sight picture, though you can see a half fast and half slow on the indexer lights as well. I wasn't a paddles, so I'll stop there, but I would guess you can judge more precisely with either daytime stab/wing gouge or exterior lighting at night.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 02:53

You will see Steady Red (maybe) & GREEN & ORANGE Optimum Angle of Attack External AoA Indexer Lights in this video:

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Unread post08 May 2015, 03:08

slightly off topic, but the Viper (and presumably other USAF aircraft) AoA indications are the most confusing things I have seen. Same arrangement, but the colors are all wrong, and what we call the "E-bracket" in the F/A-18 (the AoA symbology in the HUD to the left of the VV or FPM with the gear down) is reverse.......ie in the HUD a fast in the Hornet looks the same as a slow in the F-16, and vice versa. Luckily they included the AoA tape (which we don't have in the Hornet as there is a digital readout in the HUD). On topic, I wonder how they plan to skin that cat in the F-35 with the A and the C going to very different customers with completely opposite habit patterns/sight pictures.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 03:28

There is a thread about this aspect of older non-compatible AoA indications in cockpits of various aircraft mentioned. Doubtless there are more in other aircraft. AFAIK all the cockpit symbology - not only AoA/Airspeed - is standard for all variants of the F-35s. Exceptions will be the Mode 4 indications of the engine exhaust nozzle angle where ever it is appropriate - for example. Similarly the cockpits of the F-35 family are more or less the same with few exceptions. Recently we saw the 'switches' for the Norwegian Show Stopper (drag chute) whilst the STOVL/HOOK button nearby on right has different actions when pressed in each F-35 Variant (more or less). F-35A it is for emergency hook deployment, F-35C for normal hook up/down, and for F=35B it is to transition to/from STOVL Mode 4 (when airspeed below 250 knots and below 10K feets).

Unfortunately the graphics at this forum link are no longer there: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=245210&hilit=Tougas#p245210 however keep scrolling down (and perhaps backwards later?).

CARTOON pinched from: http://www.sluf.org/misc_pages/codeone_v1_n3.pdf
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Unread post08 May 2015, 03:42

so hook actuation will be via a button on the F-35C? That sounds real great. Though I always enjoyed slapping the handle down, I think there are some reasons it was a really well defined and hard to accidentally actuate control.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 04:03

I have flown only Sea Venoms and A4Gs with hooks - Sea Venom flown not onboard HMAS Melbourne because they were in their final days ashore c1969-70. However for whatever reason the dinky toy like handles in the A-4 were really shittily made. One had to be careful especially with the gear handle. Early A4G pilots used to SLAP the gear down (probably a Venom habit) without either properly squeezing said handle, or not at all squeezing but forcing handle down against the uplock. Consequences were drastic for one pilot with these early SLOPPY gear handles. Whilst ashore at NAS Barbers Point he was dropping dummy stuff at Kahoolawe range when pulling out of a 450 KIAS dive he somehow bumped the gear handle - AND the GEAR Went DOWN! UhOh.

Wingman inspected the damage for our VF-805 second gear up landing on drop tanks (I was first) in a few months. This one was arrested on foam back at NAS BP [west of Honaruru Airfield with 747s trundling over the top at 1,500 feet or so [they seemed a lot lower because to me they wuz HUGE) on approach to HickHam/Aloha AF].

The gear handle really was ratshit in that aircraft - it could barely stay up in the UP latched position - so pilot not at fault. Subsequently all gear handles checked and fixed and from then on caution prevailed.

Just as a diversion: The Sea Venom and Vampire (many versions of both) had sadly a problematic similar but different cockpit arrangement. It was dangerous to fly a Vampire straight after a Sea Venom because of the speedbrake/high pressure fuel cock handle similarities in position and shape. Just grabbing a handle without looking would cause the Vampire engine to shut down instead of operating the speedbrakes. It gets complicated to explain. I think it has been done on another thread somewhere already. Anyway the thing to remember - and this was done also in our initial RAAF training - was to BANG down on the speedbrake handle in the Vampire to operate them OUT. Otherwise the fuel cock needed to be grabbed to actuate.

One can guess that the Venom speedbrakes operated via a handle similar to the Vampire fuel handle. :bang:

Poor Quality image shows F-35 cockpit with gear handle down (wheel illuminated) with STOVL / HOOK Button above. Blank space on left is where the Drag Chute bits go.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 04:11

ergonomics.........more important than you think

and while it is one of the coolest jets of all time, the Viper (at least our block 15s) has possibly the worst ergonomics I've ever seen......though that is probably relative. I'd guess it was a whole new world of comfort for the F-4 and even more dated aircrew out there when the transition was made back when.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 04:18

Heheh. The horror of the 'every variant of Vampire has a different cockpit whilst the RAN FAA Vamps had mostly every one different' - that were flying before the end. Wait for the WWII era instruments (filched from the WWII prop fighters of the day when Vampire was designed toward end of WWII - first flying at war end). In mostly the RAN Vamps the two AIs(rather than one central AI in RAAF dual Vamps) one for each pilot seated side by side, meant that it could NOT be seen, mostly covered up by one right fist on control column when flying. It was a real shock to get into an RAN Vampire at first after being trained on 'all same same' RAAF dual Vampires.

http://www.aussiemodeller.com/Images/Hi ... 0072_V.jpg (does not work now so I'll post the RAAF image and then an RAN dual AI one).

NOTE how the student left seat control column is hiding the AI in the second RAN Vamp (although we did not have the gunsights - only in Venoms - which had been removed by the time I flew them) image below. :doh: We did mostly VISUAL attitude flying - even in the A4G - Power Plus Attitude Equals Performance. :roll: EYES out on STICKs looking for bogies - no A/A radars. :devil: Only way to fly except in the vHUD HMDS III world I'll guess. :mrgreen:
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Unread post08 May 2015, 12:07

35_aoa wrote:so hook actuation will be via a button on the F-35C? That sounds real great. Though I always enjoyed slapping the handle down, I think there are some reasons it was a really well defined and hard to accidentally actuate control.


Actuation for the arresting hook in the F-117 was the same: a button.
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Unread post08 May 2015, 14:05

Salute!

Lemme get this straight. The nasal radiators pull back to move the AoA bracket DOWN?

Seemed logical to this Air Force puke to see the bracket move up for high AoA and "push it down" for lower AoA. I flew the F-20 and Hornet sims way back and the bracket moved just like the Sluf and Viper.

I always loved the Sluf "hook" hook. It looked just like a hook!!! Had to pull out a bit to lower it.

1) We had Navy exchange and RAF exchange troops in the Sluf at the Beach and at least one Navy exchange pilot ( A-7E) at Hill in the Viper. No complaints about the AoA bracket or the AoA indexers in the Sluf. Hmmmm.....

2) I used my original issue helmet bag until I climbed outta my Viper in 1984 to end my career. Used it as a lumbar pad due to a back injury in 1972.

3) I'll head over to the bayou later to see a Cee, maybe. They were in the pattern Wed and Thurs. I did not note any colors, so maybe all the Stubs have a nose gear landing light or a combo for the boat folks. There were a lot of planes both days, so maybe an exercise or the test dudes are getting more jets. At least one flight looked like "chase" of a newbie.

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Unread post08 May 2015, 15:28

So we know that females are underrepresented in most armed forced, but how about this forum? I have never even thought about it before, but after seeing the first female F-35 pilot, which I think is just as natural as a male pilot, it occurred to me that I have never become aware of any females in this forum. Perhaps that is good, but I'm still curious.

P.S. I'm not looking for a pen pal 8)
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