164-1 F-14 kill ratio claim?

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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huggy

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Unread post09 Nov 2013, 22:50

maddog2840 wrote:...an F-15 in Desert Storm used "Maneuvering" as the weapon of choice.

I don't recall that,... but I do seem to recall an EF-111 that was trying to evade an Iraqi F-1 during the war, and the F-1 hit the ground.
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Unread post10 Nov 2013, 04:57

yeah, 2000# LGB is the most unique weapon of choice for an F-15 A-A kill.
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post01 Dec 2013, 20:14

huggy wrote:I don't recall that,... but I do seem to recall an EF-111 that was trying to evade an Iraqi F-1 during the war, and the F-1 hit the ground.

Dear huggy,
There is no Iraqi Mirage F-1 hit the ground in gulf war 1991 desert storm, actually the Iraqi Mirage F-1 No 4021 from 79th squadron of IrAF shot down US EF-111A s/n 66-0023 on January 17-1991 but US claimed that EF-111A s/n 66-0023 was shot down on the 13/14th February, nearly one month after and this not truth, i can guess you relied on media sources such as history channel desert storm dogfights TV program, which is totally wrong, however the story below by the official former Iraqi air force facebook page.
Colonel pilot Nafie Najim Al-Jubouri.
From The former Iraqi Air Force
Born 1964 – KIA 2003
He graduated from the Greek Air Academy in 1986, he was one of the best pilot student at that time, he achieved golden sword award for high skilled performance, he had more than 1300 Flight hours until 2003.
Colonel pilot Nafie Al-Jubouri was just first lieutenant pilot in the Gulf War "Desert storm" who managed to attain one of the aerial victories by the Iraqi Air Force in his Mirage F-1 No 4021 from 79th squadron of IrAF, after midnight of January 17-1991 exactly at 0306 AM, Colonel Nafie scrambled and took off from Saad air base better to know H 2 west of Iraq, flying his Mirage F-1 on the first night of the war in order to root out and shoot-down Coalition aircraft bombing Iraq, when he received target info about U.S EF-111A northwest H 2, the sky of Iraq was totally covered by white lines of fired missiles due to the air combat, And coalition F-15s formations was just in every five miles around, but the Eagles was exhausted in that moment because the Iraqi FoxBat was chasing them, however Colonel pilot Nafie across the darkness of that night with flashing explosions on the ground as well as in the sky and headed directly to intercept the target, and just a few minutes later the U.S EF-111A appeared on his radar screen, after identified the target he confirmed to the Ground Control it's enemy aircraft and request permission to open fire, seconds later he got the permission and simultaneously locked the target and fired single missile type Matra 530 directly toward to the U.S EF-111A, s/n 66-0023, the F-111 tried to Jamming and avoid the missile, but the Matra 530 hit the F-111 in the cockpit sent it to the ground.
RIP to all Warriors fall in that conflict.
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huggy

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Unread post02 Dec 2013, 00:24

I seem to recall this, because back on 17 Jan 91, I was living in a hardened bunker at Taif, Saudi Arabia, along with many EF-111 pilots/WSOs. Over the next day or two, there was word that an EF-111 maneuvered to avoid an F-1, and the F-1 flew into the ground during the maneuvering.

I also recall others talking about it a few years after the fact.

It's been over 20 years... and that's a lot brain cells that have moved on. But I'm pretty sure I have the overall gist of the story correct.

No... I don't watch "History Channel" for my information. In fact, I really don't watch TV. However, I love the irony that you then reference the "official former Iraqi Air Force Facebook page" as a credible source. Sounds legit!! Is Baghdad Bob the webmaster??
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post02 Dec 2013, 13:18

huggy wrote:I seem to recall this, because back on 17 Jan 91, I was living in a hardened bunker at Taif, Saudi Arabia, along with many EF-111 pilots/WSOs. Over the next day or two, there was word that an EF-111 maneuvered to avoid an F-1, and the F-1 flew into the ground during the maneuvering.

I also recall others talking about it a few years after the fact.

It's been over 20 years... and that's a lot brain cells that have moved on. But I'm pretty sure I have the overall gist of the story correct.

No... I don't watch "History Channel" for my information. In fact, I really don't watch TV. However, I love the irony that you then reference the "official former Iraqi Air Force Facebook page" as a credible source. Sounds legit!! Is Baghdad Bob the webmaster??


Dear huggy,
Trust me there is no Iraqi F-1 hit the ground out-maneuvering, i know most Iraqi Mirage F-1 pilots (my friends) one of them Khaldoun Bakr the former commander of the Iraqi air force during nineties, however on January 17 we lost two F-1 shot down by US F-15s , one by Capt Rob Greater as we know and the other one by Capt Steve Tate, but there is an Iraqi Mirage F-1 piloted by Najim Abdullah Al-Jubouri fired one Magic missile on unarmed USAF EF-111, in the opening minutes of the Gulf War on 17 January 1991 they were both of them on low altitude (US & Iraqi F-1) probably an early detonation of missile have confused pilots as both sides claim victory in that time this is all what happened.
The "official former Iraqi Air Force Facebook page" created by retired fighter pilots to publish their ​​memoirs or stories as well rare photos from the past (totally independent there is no government department behind it).
Regards.
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outlaw162

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Unread post02 Dec 2013, 20:14

FWIW,

http://www.rjlee.org/air/ds-aakill/index.html

You guys can sort it out.

My wife says sometimes it's hard to tell what happened in the dark. :shock:
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Unread post03 Dec 2013, 00:19

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
huggy wrote:I don't recall that,... but I do seem to recall an EF-111 that was trying to evade an Iraqi F-1 during the war, and the F-1 hit the ground.

Dear huggy,
There is no Iraqi Mirage F-1 hit the ground in gulf war 1991 desert storm, actually the Iraqi Mirage F-1 No 4021 from 79th squadron of IrAF shot down US EF-111A s/n 66-0023 on January 17-1991 but US claimed that EF-111A s/n 66-0023 was shot down on the 13/14th February, nearly one month after and this not truth, i can guess you relied on media sources such as history channel desert storm dogfights TV program, which is totally wrong, however the story below by the official former Iraqi air force facebook page.
Colonel pilot Nafie Najim Al-Jubouri.
From The former Iraqi Air Force
Born 1964 – KIA 2003
He graduated from the Greek Air Academy in 1986, he was one of the best pilot student at that time, he achieved golden sword award for high skilled performance, he had more than 1300 Flight hours until 2003.
Colonel pilot Nafie Al-Jubouri was just first lieutenant pilot in the Gulf War "Desert storm" who managed to attain one of the aerial victories by the Iraqi Air Force in his Mirage F-1 No 4021 from 79th squadron of IrAF, after midnight of January 17-1991 exactly at 0306 AM, Colonel Nafie scrambled and took off from Saad air base better to know H 2 west of Iraq, flying his Mirage F-1 on the first night of the war in order to root out and shoot-down Coalition aircraft bombing Iraq, when he received target info about U.S EF-111A northwest H 2, the sky of Iraq was totally covered by white lines of fired missiles due to the air combat, And coalition F-15s formations was just in every five miles around, but the Eagles was exhausted in that moment because the Iraqi FoxBat was chasing them, however Colonel pilot Nafie across the darkness of that night with flashing explosions on the ground as well as in the sky and headed directly to intercept the target, and just a few minutes later the U.S EF-111A appeared on his radar screen, after identified the target he confirmed to the Ground Control it's enemy aircraft and request permission to open fire, seconds later he got the permission and simultaneously locked the target and fired single missile type Matra 530 directly toward to the U.S EF-111A, s/n 66-0023, the F-111 tried to Jamming and avoid the missile, but the Matra 530 hit the F-111 in the cockpit sent it to the ground.
RIP to all Warriors fall in that conflict.


Run on sentence of the year..
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Unread post03 Dec 2013, 00:32

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
aaam wrote:
mixelflick wrote:The Phoenix US shots were taken by F-14D's at extreme range, at Foxbats. I've heard conflicting reports of rocket motors failing, etc. but nothing more. Would have been nice if it were disclosed how close they got to said Foxbats, but I understand this probably falls into the, "can't talk about that" category. LOL...

Regardless, the Phoenix seems to have accomplished its objective: Keep offending Soviet bombers etc. FAR away from the fleet. It's psychological impact , if not physical was imposing. I do believe the Iranian claims btw, as there's just too much evidence to suggest the Phoenix was successful. Add to that the Desert Storm reports of Iraqi fighters turning away when painted by the F-14's AWG-9, and I think it's rather obvious...


AIM-54s were fired in 1999 against Iraqi a/c at long range but failed to score. it's worthy of note that F-15s around the same time (maybe even the same engagement) fired AIM-120s at their extreme range and also missed.

I don't mean offend, but i doubt they were even able to use the AIM-54A in correct way, add to that during the war was that Iranian F-14s are inoperational and can't deploy the AIM-54As in combat mission (for technical and professional reasons), logically the AIM-54 designed to neutralize fast and large targets such as bombers which is less maneuverability, fire it on movable ground target or air objective such MIGs just wasting ammunition for no achievement, and kindly if you can help me to prove your claim ( there's just too much evidence to suggest the Phoenix was successful ) where ! may i know? on Tom Cooper list Iranian Air-to-Air Victories! if does then you depends on prosaic source, claims only are not based on fact, totally incorrect. if you got chance to read this phrase ( highly-experienced Iranian pilots, the F-14A proved the ultimate "MiG-Killer" during the long war against Iraq, eventually scoring over 160 ) on acig, So let me tell you that you may be tricked into empty information, how many Super Etendard Iranians claims that shot down by their F-14 ? five to six ? simply none. because Iraq borrowed only five Super Etendard from the French in October 1983 were later after one year returned (minus one lost in a training accident ) when the dedicated version Mirage F-1EQ for anti ship missions was not in sufficient number. so I am just wondering and ask my self here: those Super Etendard ( as Tom Cooper or Iranians claims that shot down by Iran F-14 ) before 1983 and after 1984, come from where ?! as well with many other Iraqi air craft Iranians claims that shot down by their F-14 or F-4 or even F-5, actually we didn't know it's simple as that, just choose a specific date and name of any air craft that you would like to claim shot down and published somewhere, People will rely on as source and forward it, no serial number of Iraq aircraft no Iraq pilot name, just type and date and load of numbers on the list, just like christmas morning choose your favorite one.
Ok let's say between 4 to 6 F-22 raptor were shot down by MIG-19 in random date " choose whatever you like" in 1982 it's gonna be certified and documented in the future ?!!
who knows I've already written it and will see ..
Regards.


WTF is this?

Listen Sparky, I dunno where you're getting your info but PLEASE organize your thoughts a bit better OK? Good lord, I read what you wrote 3x's and my brain still hurts. You're either hyped up on crystal meth or English isn't your first language.

I hope it's the latter...
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post03 Dec 2013, 02:52

outlaw162 wrote:FWIW,

http://www.rjlee.org/air/ds-aakill/index.html

You guys can sort it out.

My wife says sometimes it's hard to tell what happened in the dark. :shock:


outlaw !
Nothing personal here we just talk about the past and air war history and clarify fact that was hidden for long years to each other, it's something happened about 23 years ago and "what happened is happened already" :wink:
But good you mentioned this link because i would like to clarify another air to air engagement during the gulf war 91 especially January 19: Rodriguez and Underhill VS Jameel Sayhood and Qasim Khalaf Hamad (F-15s VS MIG-29s).
Well Capt Qasim Khalaf Hamad from 39th Squadron of IrAF he is my close friend and we are in touch daily but unfortunately he still live in Iraq "under this situation" however, Capt Qasim Khalaf Hamad he didn't hit the ground or crashed as well (out-maneuvering) as the Coalition Air-to-Air Victories claimed, Capt Qasim Khalaf and formation leader Koutaiba Said received order to take offs immediately and intercept group of coalition air craft penetrate Iraqi air space from Saudi Arabia headed toward near Al-Nukhayb west of Iraq, to give cover to RAF Panavia Tornados in mission to bombing targets inside Iraq as well, however in that time Capt Jameel Sayhood and other Iraqi pilot was on standby to take off and intercept the British Tornados while Capt Qasim Khalaf and formation leader Koutaiba Said catch the sky and headed directly in high speed combat to coalition air craft, several minutes later it shows a group of four F-15s with one AWACS, the formation leader Koutaiba informed the ground control, seconds and he received "mission abort" and return to the base (proceeded to implement) but Capt Qasim Khalaf continued try to "lock on" the closer target and successfully hook one of them "while firing radar-guided missiles R-27R" the lock broken! It turned out that the target is AWACS, continued in his attempts to shut down the targets and fire missiles but the lock was broken again, repeat the process three times with clear and close targets, but he could not, Due to the Electronic Warfare ECM.
Here Rodriguez and Underhill came to him and he across between them, and began one of the most fiercest dog fight in the Gulf War, in this time Capt Jameel Sayhood prepare for take-off and intercept British aircraft while Capt Qasim Khalaf broke off attacking Rodriguez and Underhill, the British Tornados almost reached their targets Capt Sayhood took off and brought down the formation leader (British Tornado serial ZA467 piloted by Gary Lennox and Adrian Weeks) Capt Qasim Khalaf heard a call from Capt Sayhood that he shoot-down the Tornado back to face Rodriguez and Underhill, Capt Sayhood he just got one (Morale rose)thought the other one on the way as well..
Here (Rodriguez or Underhill) fired AIM-7M at Capt Qasim Khalaf MIG-29 followed by other on but Capt Qasim avoid both of them by sharp maneuver (Happening at the same time) Capt Sayhood joined the engagement the US F-15 "probably Underhill" fired tow AIM-7M on Sayhood MIG-29 the first one avoided but the second one hit him head on, Capt Sayhood managed to eject but his leg broken when he impact the ground (later got the honor from Iraqi government), now the other F-15 probably Rodriguez tried to lock on the other MIG-29 piloted by Capt Qasim which is broke the lock with split-S maneuverability Capt Qasim successfully passed low altitude super sonic speed the US F-15 and returned to the base and land safely.
This is all fact and total what happened.
Picture to Capt Qasim Khalaf the MIG-29 pilot.
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huggy

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Unread post03 Dec 2013, 05:44

Mixelflick,
Um.... he is from Iraq, I would guess,... based on reading his posts. And his username. And the fact he says he's friends with Iraqi pilots from 20+ years ago.
So, I'm guessing English isn't his 1st language.
It's better than my Arabic, though.
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Unread post05 Dec 2013, 14:14

huggy wrote:Mixelflick,
Um.... he is from Iraq, I would guess,... based on reading his posts. And his username. And the fact he says he's friends with Iraqi pilots from 20+ years ago.
So, I'm guessing English isn't his 1st language.
It's better than my Arabic, though.


Fair point...
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Unread post05 Dec 2013, 20:17

I for one think it's pretty awesome to have someone from an ex-enemy posting. I could kind of buy the F1 vs F-111 thing, since IIRC they pilot and EWO (or whatever he is in the EF-111) did see an explosion and their would naturally not be a HUD tape of something behind you.
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Unread post08 Dec 2013, 20:58

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:Trust me there is no Iraqi F-1 hit the ground out-maneuvering,...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Brandon

I looked around on the internet, and there are multiple sources that confirm this event.
It appears that Brandon, and the pilot (James Denton), received a Distinguished Flying Cross for the event,... which was witnessed by other in the area.
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post09 Dec 2013, 00:20

huggy wrote:
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:Trust me there is no Iraqi F-1 hit the ground out-maneuvering,...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Brandon

I looked around on the internet, and there are multiple sources that confirm this event.
It appears that Brandon, and the pilot (James Denton), received a Distinguished Flying Cross for the event,... which was witnessed by other in the area.


Dear huggy,

First of all I would like to thank you to clarify my point in the previous comments because the English is not my first language for that I have mistakes with grammar as well with spelling and I hope everybody will excuse me.

However Wikipedia can not be relied upon as a reliable source, as everybody knows each one can create article and publish it with one click, but here I would like to share with you some official document list of the Iraqi Mirage F-1 statement after the war 1991 until 2003 (which is print out on book called Iraqi Fighters published by Brig.Gen.Ahmad Sadik & Tom Cooper) so you could build your idea in correct way because the same Mirage F-1 No 4021 flown to Iran after a few days from that incident (shooting down the F-111) and Iraqi air force announced that since nineties which is even before this story come up (such Iraqi Mirage F-1 hit the ground due to low-altitude maneuvering).
Image
Image
Image

And here another official document by Iraqi air force showing:
The time of the immediate takeoff.
The name of the pilot.
Details of Duty : immediate takeoff, intercepting and shot down.

I know its in Arabic and hard to read it but people who served in Iraq and, in particular air bases they can immediately note the document it official and real.

Image

And here official letter were sent by the Iraqi pilot Capt Nafie Al-Jubouri to President Saddam Hussein about this mission which is proof the incident.
Image
Image

By the way I always forget to mention the F-111 crashed inside Syrian territory not even In Iraq or Saudi Arabia.
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Unread post09 Dec 2013, 01:25

So they shot down an F-111. That makes the crew of the F-111 interviewed for that episode, liars?

If so, they're good ones...
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