Why is the F-35 replacing the A-10?

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4340
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 04:51

is what would be the best CAS weapon for the F-35. SDB wouldn't be bad, but what about internal cluster munitions or brimstone?
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Offline

wrightwing

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3219
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 15:22

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 06:57

popcorn wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
uclass wrote:I agree that if I had to pick just one of the two it would be the F-35 but I'd rather have both and cut elsewhere.


Well considering that the USAF plans on keeping ~ 246 A-10s until 2040, we will have both, for 27 more years.


I wouldn't bet on it.. the political winds sre fickle, and cost pressures unrelenting and plans are made to be broken.


Well, they've already spent the money on re-winging them, and adding updated avionics, not to mention a plan for retiring 5 squadrons, so it's doubtful they will be retired in the near term, whether they last till 2040 or not.
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2772
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 07:12

SDB II should be quite nice with so many targeting options. Of course there are several other similar small weapons being planned for use in F-35 also like MBDA Spear which uses similar multimode seeker and should be faster as it uses turbojet engine and might have a longer range. It most likely is also more expensive weapon than SDB II. Of course there is the Brimstone missile which is smaller and with shorter range, but also with nice multimode (SAL, MMW, or both at the same time) seeker.

There are also interesting weapons that could be used like MBDA Viper-E which is already used by USMC (as Viper Strike) and should be quite inexpensive and is very small (so large number could be carried). I don't know if such a weapon could be used in fast moving jet as it has been used only in UAVs and different versions of C-130. Other very similar weapon is Raytheon AGM-176 Griffin, which is also already in use. Maybe they'd have too much limitations in launch speed to be good candidates for F-35? Of course they might be nice weapons for the A-10 though?
Offline

wrightwing

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3219
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 15:22

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 08:09

hornetfinn wrote:SDB II should be quite nice with so many targeting options. Of course there are several other similar small weapons being planned for use in F-35 also like MBDA Spear which uses similar multimode seeker and should be faster as it uses turbojet engine and might have a longer range. It most likely is also more expensive weapon than SDB II. Of course there is the Brimstone missile which is smaller and with shorter range, but also with nice multimode (SAL, MMW, or both at the same time) seeker.

There are also interesting weapons that could be used like MBDA Viper-E which is already used by USMC (as Viper Strike) and should be quite inexpensive and is very small (so large number could be carried). I don't know if such a weapon could be used in fast moving jet as it has been used only in UAVs and different versions of C-130. Other very similar weapon is Raytheon AGM-176 Griffin, which is also already in use. Maybe they'd have too much limitations in launch speed to be good candidates for F-35? Of course they might be nice weapons for the A-10 though?


Not to mention Brimstone, JAGM, etc...
Offline
User avatar

count_to_10

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3282
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 15:38

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 11:23

Who knows. Maybe we'll see something to the effect of a laser guided gliding hand grenade.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5917
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 14:15

wrightwing wrote:
popcorn wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
uclass wrote:I agree that if I had to pick just one of the two it would be the F-35 but I'd rather have both and cut elsewhere.


Well considering that the USAF plans on keeping ~ 246 A-10s until 2040, we will have both, for 27 more years.


I wouldn't bet on it.. the political winds sre fickle, and cost pressures unrelenting and plans are made to be broken.


Well, they've already spent the money on re-winging them, and adding updated avionics, not to mention a plan for retiring 5 squadrons, so it's doubtful they will be retired in the near term, whether they last till 2040 or not.


If we follow the UK model, you upgrade before you scrap them. :twisted:

uclass wrote:Oh, I'm happy then. :D


Me too. With sequestration kicking in and the US Military swimming in excess money the next 10 years, and filled with old over-flown aircraft. we must retain a niche aircraft, the kind that we can't think of a single scenario in which it would be necessary is just what the doctor ordered. Its for camel hunting afterall. :wink:
Offline

uclass

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 962
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 16:05

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 21:44

count_to_10 wrote:Who knows. Maybe we'll see something to the effect of a laser guided gliding hand grenade.

Been done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ICxImSsjw

http://www.defensereview.com/mbda-tiger ... -a-temper/

I guess the Harvest Hawk does work pretty well too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyjuhz74hsg
Last edited by uclass on 30 Aug 2013, 22:02, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

uclass

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 962
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 16:05

Unread post30 Aug 2013, 21:56

XanderCrews wrote:
Who said anything about an AH-64?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... or_gun.jpg

plus Blackhawks can do other useful things like carry people and cargo when they aren't camel hunting.

Does leave the gunner exposed though.

40:45 (common criminal with a bolt action .30-06.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YHTZ9PBEHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk1Me_AKxxU
Offline
User avatar

count_to_10

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3282
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 15:38

Unread post31 Aug 2013, 00:57

uclass wrote:
count_to_10 wrote:Who knows. Maybe we'll see something to the effect of a laser guided gliding hand grenade.

Been done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ICxImSsjw

http://www.defensereview.com/mbda-tiger ... -a-temper/

I guess the Harvest Hawk does work pretty well too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyjuhz74hsg

The Viper strike looks something like what I was thinking, although I was thinking more like 20 inches rather than 35. I wonder if you could configure some kind of array of launch tubes in the F-35 bay that would kick them out downward. Don't see any cost listed.

The tiger is the kind of infantry deployed CAS weapon I was talking about earlier. Switchblade is a bit more timely, though -- you can launch it out of it's tube in a matter of seconds instead of having to assemble it.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
Offline

wrightwing

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3219
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 15:22

Unread post31 Aug 2013, 09:44

count_to_10 wrote:
uclass wrote:
count_to_10 wrote:Who knows. Maybe we'll see something to the effect of a laser guided gliding hand grenade.

Been done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ICxImSsjw

http://www.defensereview.com/mbda-tiger ... -a-temper/

I guess the Harvest Hawk does work pretty well too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyjuhz74hsg

The Viper strike looks something like what I was thinking, although I was thinking more like 20 inches rather than 35. I wonder if you could configure some kind of array of launch tubes in the F-35 bay that would kick them out downward. Don't see any cost listed.

The tiger is the kind of infantry deployed CAS weapon I was talking about earlier. Switchblade is a bit more timely, though -- you can launch it out of it's tube in a matter of seconds instead of having to assemble it.


It'd be cheaper to just use launchers on the wings, since maintaining stealth isn't an issue for CAS.
Offline

uclass

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 962
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 16:05

Unread post31 Aug 2013, 11:52

count_to_10 wrote:
uclass wrote:
count_to_10 wrote:Who knows. Maybe we'll see something to the effect of a laser guided gliding hand grenade.

Been done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ICxImSsjw

http://www.defensereview.com/mbda-tiger ... -a-temper/

I guess the Harvest Hawk does work pretty well too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyjuhz74hsg

The Viper strike looks something like what I was thinking, although I was thinking more like 20 inches rather than 35.

SABER or STM (Pyros).

http://www.mbda-systems.com/e-catalogue ... ons/air/28
http://mbdainc.com/downloads/saber-data.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERkmjvsLWQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVwdPd4nlc
Offline
User avatar

count_to_10

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3282
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 15:38

Unread post31 Aug 2013, 13:06



It'd be cheaper to just use launchers on the wings, since maintaining stealth isn't an issue for CAS.


It may be in the future -- but, more to the point, you get more persistence if you go with an internal load only.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
Offline

uclass

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 962
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 16:05

Unread post31 Aug 2013, 15:19

wrightwing wrote:It'd be cheaper to just use launchers on the wings, since maintaining stealth isn't an issue for CAS.

It'd be cheaper to use a Mk44/GAU-23A.
Offline

uclass

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 962
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 16:05

Unread post01 Sep 2013, 21:24

count_to_10 wrote:The tiger is the kind of infantry deployed CAS weapon I was talking about earlier. Switchblade is a bit more timely, though -- you can launch it out of it's tube in a matter of seconds instead of having to assemble it.

Out of a tube?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade_UAV

Ah okay.

http://www.avinc.com/uas/adc/switchblade/
Offline

maus92

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2052
  • Joined: 21 May 2010, 17:50
  • Location: Annapolis, MD

Unread post04 Sep 2013, 23:08

disconnectedradical wrote:As I understand, the F-35 would be a fine replacement for the F-16, F/A-18 classics, and AV-8. But it is also being advertised as an A-10 replacement. This is something that I don't quite understand, since I don't think the F-35 can perform CAS nearly as well as an A-10 would. This is no knock on the F-35, since an F-16 or F/A-18 also isn't nearly as good at CAS. I'd imagine that jets like F-16, F/A-18, and F-35 lack the loiter time of the A-10.


Boeing just won a contract for an additional 56 wings, bringing the total on order to 242 - enough to keep the A-10 flying to the mid 2030s. It's not going anywhere soon. The USAF continues to try to retire them, but pressure from the ground forces on various fronts keeps them alive.
PreviousNext

Return to General F-35 Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 101spider and 10 guests