F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post09 May 2013, 02:08

'neptune' asked above: "...at first pass[?], AAG and JPALS could handle the "half flap" approach but quickly devolves to "can the hook handle it??". ...but is the energy capacity of the attachment (connections) [F-35C?] up to the mentioned 8-10 knots increase in approach speed and the landing weight"[?]..."

One look at the old hook for the F-35C gives me the impression that it is very capable of hanging off the deck by the arrestor gear (not that we want that to happen). I'm sure the testing at Lakehurst will sort out these weight/arrest/hook issues. Remember the thread about the 'jet cars' weighted that are arrested? Anyhoo....

http://www.jsf.mil/images/gallery/sdd/f ... tc_002.jpg

This PDF had the jet car dead load testing info seen in graphic below:
http://www.winlab.rutgers.edu/~crose/pa ... ep2011.pdf
Attachments
F-35ChookGraphicSTAMPsmall.gif
sdd_f35testc_002.jpg
LakehurstDeadLoadJetCars.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

count_to_10

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3282
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 15:38

Unread post09 May 2013, 02:47

Is it just me, or is the F-35 hook a lot shorter, and come down at a steeper angle, than the hooks of other fighters?
Last edited by count_to_10 on 10 May 2013, 00:03, edited 1 time in total.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post09 May 2013, 02:57

Perhaps this recently posted comparo graphic elsewhere on this forum makes the point?

A lot of this and related threads are devoted to the F-35C hook issue but this is a recent quote that makes sense to sum it all up (from the noted previous 'hysterical' coverage that an "F-35C Cannot Land on an Aircraft Carrier" back at the beginning of 2012?

One of the few credible sources on Pprune offering information would be 'Engines'. I could name others but that is not the point of this quote. There are many scurrilous commentators on Pprune but naming them would be tireshreddingsome. :D
"...Firstly, from my experience on the [F-35] programme, the tail hook design was subjected to close examination by the USN experts, and compared against all applicable standards and requirements. It passed. In particular, there was no standard for wheel to hook distance. Bottom line - they didn't 'get it wrong'...."

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... ost7832962
Attachments
HookLocF-35_X-47B_F-18_F-14.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post12 May 2013, 08:34

Looks to me like the new 'A-4like' hook shape for the F-35C about the catch the single wire?
From: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-17532.html (Korean Brief 2Mb PDF 2013)
OR
http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com.au/2 ... n-for.html
Attachments
F-35CnewHookShapePerhaps.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post12 May 2013, 11:33

A RHINO 'Hook': [turn on animation in browser page]

Click thumbnail: Image
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post12 May 2013, 20:59

This 'wonderful world' test environment awaits the F-35C....

STRIKE TEST NEWS Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 Newsletter 2012 Issue
"...[F-35C] MISSION SYSTEMS AIRCRAFT (page 24)
"...CF-3 [F-35C] returned to Patuxent River after completing final finishes in Fort Worth in early March [2012] and continues to perform F-35C mission systems testing, as well as ship suitability events.... ...A tailhook dynamics evaluation was conducted while performing cable roll-overs and roll-in arrestments at NAS Patuxent River and NAES Lakehurst. A new hook point design was validated at speeds up to 100 knots, trapping on each attempt...."

SHAKE, RATTLE, AND ROLL TESTING (page 20) LT Matthew "Brasso" Davin
VX-23 Ship Suitability performs Shake, Rattle, and Roll (SRR) loads testing on aircraft, systems, and ordnance to ensure that items under test are able to withstand the high demands of shipboard flight operations. A standard "shake" includes both catapult and arresting gear tests at our unique shore based test facility. On the catapult, we build up to the maximum longitudinal acceleration and maximum off center launch bar engagement. Arrested landing tests are more challenging, and require much more difficult flying techniques.

At the arresting gear test site a shake typically begins with buildup to a high sink landing. Using a MK-8 Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System (FLOLS), the glideslope is gradually increased from 3.5 degrees up to 5.5 degrees or beyond, until greater than 20 feet per second (1200 fpm!) is obtained on touchdown. A "free flight" arrestment is performed such that the hook picks up the wire before the main gear hit the deck, requiring a very shallow and precise approach. A "roll/yaw" test point is performed with greater than 5 degrees wing down and up to full opposite rudder pedal on touchdown. Maximum deceleration test points are achieved by targeting a specific ground speed, which depending on wind requires pilots to fly a non-standard angle of attack anywhere between 6 and 12 degrees. Finally, off-center test points require the pilot to target an 18 ft off-center engagement, hopefully without exceeding 20 ft off-center and downing the arresting gear...."

http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... oad&id=670 (2Mb PDF)
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post14 May 2013, 00:07

2-Star: Air Wing Has To Evolve 13 May 2013
"Defense News, Navy Times’ sister publication, discussed the future of naval aviation with Rear Adm. Bill Moran, the director of air warfare, and his deputy, Rear Adm. Rich Butler. Excerpts, edited for space and clarity:..."
"...Q. Adm. Jon Greenert, chief of naval operations, was recently asked in the Senate what his biggest concerns are with the F-35. He said, “I need a tailhook, a helmet and a program that will deliver weapons equivalent to a Super Hornet.” Can you address those issues?

Moran. Absolutely. The tailhook had issues with snagging the arresting cable. The bottom line is that the design was flawed, so a complete redesign has been completed. A preliminary critical design is done. The engineers for the Navy have confidence in that design. We’re going to begin testing that.


Q. Is the hook being repositioned on the aircraft?

Moran. No. We changed the hold-down damper, and we changed the hook design, which previously was more of a blunt-nosed hook. It was kind of a bulbous nose and it wasn’t scooping. I know— it’s hard to defend this one.

Butler. When the [aircraft’s] wheels go over the wire, it bounces, and that bounce happened to hit right as the hook was coming over where the wire was on the deck. So it was a combination of the distance between the main mounts and the hook point, and the fact that the hook point wasn’t shaped quite right.

It wasn’t hugging the flight deck close enough...."

http://hrana.org/articles/2013/05/2-sta ... to-evolve/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post18 May 2013, 10:25

Also repeated on the relevant X-47B thread at same time...

The day of the unmanned aircraft. By Dave Majumdar on May 15, 2013
"...However, the X-47B did not carry out an arrested landing upon returning to Pax River. That could be because the unmanned jet was having difficulty making even that first trap it did the week before where the Navy showed off a video of the aircraft snagging a wire. Sources told the DEW Line, at the time of the earlier trap, the aircraft now had a 10 percent field boarding rate... So hopefully, this isn't an indication of a major problem. The X-47B guys have had to redesign their tail hook a number of times now due to the same inaccurate Navy-supplied wire dynamics model that was partly responsible for the F-35C's woes...."

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... ircra.html
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post01 Jun 2013, 21:56

Came across this story today - let us hope the F-35C dashpot is fixed...

Panthers At Sea By David Noland | Air & Space magazine, June 2013
"U.S. Navy Panthers weren’t highly evolved, but they could shoot. And they were air conditioned....

...The Grumman F9F Panther was a conservative design; it had straight wings, a conventional tail, and the rugged structure for which Grumman had earned the nickname “Iron Works.”...

...When the Navy took over testing of the Panther, the jet suffered an embarrassing moment hardly in keeping with Grumman’s reputation. During its first arrested landing, on a runway at the Navy’s test center at Patuxent River, Maryland, the sudden jolt to the tailhook pulled off the entire tail section. The engine was still firmly attached to the forward fuselage and running normally. The pilot, believing he had simply missed the cable, applied full power for a go-around. Alerted by radio to his predicament, the pilot aborted the tailless takeoff. (Subsequently, Grumman strengthened the tail attach joint.)

The Panther entered the fleet in 1949, and landings continued to present problems. “I flew the Panther during my first cruise on the USS Boxer,” says Robert Morris, a former Navy pilot who lives in San Diego, California. “I would end up in the barricade a number of times because of a faulty tailhook. The Panther had a bad hook dashpot [a hydraulic cylinder that dampens movement]. The hook would bounce up and down across the deck.” The Boxer, like other carriers, had a barrier that would catch an airplane in case of just such a problem with the arresting gear. On one trap, Morris put his Panther down in perfect position, but “the hook was skipping right over all the wires. On one of my barrier encounters, the canopy came off its hinges and hit me on the shoulder.”..."

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-avi ... 72511.html

http://media.airspacemag.com/images/Pan ... -715-5.jpg
&
http://media.airspacemag.com/images/631 ... anther.jpg

1st JPG CAPTION: "If its tailhook failed to catch an arresting wire, a landing aircraft would be halted by a barrier. (National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)) Photo from: "Panthers At Sea""
&
2nd JPG CAPTION: "Four months into the war, accidents weren’t uncommon. The F9F in the foreground was hit by another Panther that could not catch an arresting wire."
Attachments
Panthers-At-Sea-Korean-War-715-5.jpg
08_Panther.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post20 Jun 2013, 00:26

DR. J. MICHAEL GILMORE, DIRECTOR, OPERATIONAL TEST AND EVALUATION, OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE; BEFORE THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE ON DEFENSE 19 Jun 2013
"]"......F-35C Flight Sciences. Test point progress has proceeded as planned so far this year for Block 2B envelope expansion in the F-35C; however, no weapons separations or high angle-of-attack testing has been completed. The first set of sea trials are scheduled to start in the summer of 2014 (June 30), with two test aircraft from the flight test center. The first of these two aircraft is scheduled to be modified with the updated arresting hook system and upgraded nose landing gear brace later this year, which will permit catapult and arresting hook testing to begin again. The second aircraft is scheduled to be modified in the spring of 2014. Testing for electromagnetic environmental effects will need to be completed on both aircraft prior to the ship trials as well....

...The program intends to conduct the first set of carrier-based ship trials with two F-35C test aircraft in the summer of 2014. The prerequisite activity with the aircraft leading up to the sea-borne trials is extensive. The new arresting hook system – which has yet to start the planned verification, structural, or durability testing – will have to be installed on both aircraft, and shore-based roll-in testing and hook engagement testing completed with one aircraft, which will compose approximately six months of testing. An improved nose landing gear drag brace, required for catapult launches, will also be a part of the pre-deployment set of modifications. Both aircraft will need to undergo electromagnetic environmental effects testing prior to deployment. For the carrier, the Department of the Navy is working integration issues that will need to be resolved prior to the first operational deployment, but will not necessarily be solved prior to the first set of ship trials. Examples of integration issues include storage of the lithium-ion batteries on the carrier, resupplying engines while underway, and integration of the autonomic logistics information system. Some initial noise and thermal effects testing have been completed at land-based test facilities, and will be a part of the test activity during the first ship trial period. Modifications of the jet blast deflector system on the carrier may be necessary prior to the ship-borne trials to ensure adequate cooling of the deflector during JSF operations...."

http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com.au/2 ... needs.html PDF download 107Kb
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post29 Jun 2013, 01:45

Just becaUSE i LIKE THE PIC AND MY NEW KEYBOARD Keeps going into CapSlokc because of my cold fumble fingas here is some humour:

SPECIAL REPORT AIR WARFARE & FLIGHT OPERATIONS SEA POWER/OCTOBER 2011
HIGH-TECH FLIGHT DECK DIGITAL-AGE ELECTRONICS, UNMANNED SYSTEMS WILL MEAN BIG CHANGES IN CARRIER OPERATIONS By OTTO KREISHER, Special Correspondent
"...Hands-off landings on a carrier are not new. Technology allowing carrier-controlled approaches to a landing was first tested on Aug. 12, 1957, and updated versions are installed in the F/A-18 and other recent carrierbased aircraft. But those systems, which are intended for use in extremely poor visibility conditions, require the pilot to fly into position aft of the carrier where the electronic system can take over.

Given the nature of jet pilots, the hands-off system is almost never used."

http://www.seapower-digital.com/seapower/201110#pg20

http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/348/6394.JPG
Attachments
F-18autoLandLookMotherNoHands.jpg
F-18autoLandLookMotherNoHandsWhatMeWorry.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 29 Jun 2013, 03:44, edited 1 time in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

count_to_10

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3282
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 15:38

Unread post29 Jun 2013, 01:57

Given the nature of jet pilots, the hands-off system is almost never used.

Is that any thing like that cannon auto-targeting system that had unheard of accuracy, but was never implemented because it basically flew the plane for the pilot when he pulled the trigger?
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post29 Jun 2013, 04:35

A recent reminder of what is at Lakehurst: http://www.aiteam.org/library/loader.cf ... ageID=2346 (5.9Mb)

Unique ALRE Test Facilities/Capabilities 14 Mar 2012
Attachments
LakehurstOverView 2012.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post03 Aug 2013, 22:36

Gratuitous HOOK DOWN OLD photo comparo during Inaugural Flight of CF-1 from:

STRIKE TEST NEWS Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 Newsletter Spring/Summer 2010
“CF-1’s inaugural flight, from NAS Fort Worth on 06 June 2010, with Salty Dog 323 flying chase. Photo: Liz Kaszynski”

http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... oad&id=673 (PDF 2.8Mb)
Attachments
First CF-1 Flight F-35C+HornetHooksDownED.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23170
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post17 Aug 2013, 22:32

Feast of Fixes
Pentagon to weigh readiness of tailhook, helmet improvements in advance of F-35 production review
Amy Butler Washington and Huntsville, Ala., and Graham Warwick Los Angeles
AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY/AUGUST 19, 2013 | p 28 & p 33
"...Finally, Kendall will review the status of work to correct a poorly designed tailhook for the F-35C. The point of the hook, coupled with its distance from the landing gear, made it susceptible to bouncing and prevented it from scooping under the arresting wire.

Qualification testing for the new design began Aug. 8, and roll-in tests are slated for the first F-35C to receive the hook in December at Naval Air Engineering Station Lakehurst, N.J. Flight tests with the new hook are slated for early next year as preparations for the initial sea trials for the F-35C are completed late next summer, Siebert says. Aircraft built in LRIP 7 will be the first to include the new arresting hook."
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 milestones

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest