Korea threatens to disqualify F-35

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lookieloo

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Unread post06 Jun 2013, 09:45

popcorn wrote:Hopefully we won't have much longer to wait and the Koreans by July. I like the F-35's chances.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 39.xml&p=1
South Korea Nears F-X Phase 3 Decision
Interesting note at the article's end... "With Bill Sweetman in Washington." I suppose BS didn't want his name at the top since it wasn't an out 'n out hit piece.
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gtx

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Unread post06 Jun 2013, 19:52

I see that idiot slow man (by name and nature) waded in with his usual comments.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post06 Jun 2013, 21:01

gtx wrote:I see that idiot slow man (by name and nature) waded in with his usual comments.


Even Bill Sweetman is leaning toward the F-35 winning there and slowman still thinks the whole world is wrong except him :lol:

I'm going to rub it in his face if the F-35 wins. Can't wait.

Not a lot of comments there for some reason... must be the quietest avweek story I have seen in a while...
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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 03:33

This slow saga is getting decidedly underwhelming.... Maybe it is just me?

Seoul to begin bidding for fighter jets next week 13 Jun 2013 By Kim Eun-jung
"SEOUL, June 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea is set to start the bidding process next week to pick a contractor to provide 60 advanced fighter jets for 8.3 trillion won (US$7.3 billion) for the country, the Defense Acquisition Program and Administration (DAPA) said Thursday.

As negotiations are in their final stages after months of deliberation, Seoul will need to select either the Boeing's F-15 Silent Eagle, Lockheed Martin's F-35 stealth jet or the European Aerospace Defense and Space Company (EADS)'s Eurofighter Tranche 3 Typhoon.

The bidding will last for 11 days, starting from June 18, and once it is completed, the DAPA will assess the three jets before making a final decision, a DAPA official said."
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XanderCrews

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Unread post14 Jun 2013, 03:50

spazsinbad wrote:This slow saga is getting decidedly underwhelming.... Maybe it is just me?

Seoul to begin bidding for fighter jets next week 13 Jun 2013 By Kim Eun-jung
"SEOUL, June 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea is set to start the bidding process next week to pick a contractor to provide 60 advanced fighter jets for 8.3 trillion won (US$7.3 billion) for the country, the Defense Acquisition Program and Administration (DAPA) said Thursday.

As negotiations are in their final stages after months of deliberation, Seoul will need to select either the Boeing's F-15 Silent Eagle, Lockheed Martin's F-35 stealth jet or the European Aerospace Defense and Space Company (EADS)'s Eurofighter Tranche 3 Typhoon.

The bidding will last for 11 days, starting from June 18, and once it is completed, the DAPA will assess the three jets before making a final decision, a DAPA official said."


how much longer is this going to take? suspense is killing me!
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stobiewan

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Unread post16 Jun 2013, 16:27

XanderCrews wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:This slow saga is getting decidedly underwhelming.... Maybe it is just me?

Seoul to begin bidding for fighter jets next week 13 Jun 2013 By Kim Eun-jung
"SEOUL, June 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea is set to start the bidding process next week to pick a contractor to provide 60 advanced fighter jets for 8.3 trillion won (US$7.3 billion) for the country, the Defense Acquisition Program and Administration (DAPA) said Thursday.

As negotiations are in their final stages after months of deliberation, Seoul will need to select either the Boeing's F-15 Silent Eagle, Lockheed Martin's F-35 stealth jet or the European Aerospace Defense and Space Company (EADS)'s Eurofighter Tranche 3 Typhoon.

The bidding will last for 11 days, starting from June 18, and once it is completed, the DAPA will assess the three jets before making a final decision, a DAPA official said."


how much longer is this going to take? suspense is killing me!


Compared to how the Brazilian competition ran or how India's went, this is moving at breakneck speed :)
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popcorn

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Unread post19 Jun 2013, 04:39

Now would be a good time for KJU to throw a tantrum..

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/bus ... 13638.html

BUSINESS S Korea opens bidding on $7.3 billion fighter jet deal
SEOUL: South Korea formally opened bidding Tuesday on a $7.3 billion deal to provide 60 advanced fighter planes, with three aviation giants vying for what is the Asian nation's largest defence contract to date.

US companies Boeing and Lockheed Martin and the European aerospace consortium EADS are in the running, and all have prefaced their bids with various sweeteners to try and edge out their rivals.

South Korea's Defence Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), which will assess the bids, has made it clear that it cannot exceed the 8.3 trillion won ($7.3 billion) budget approved by parliament..


:)
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lookieloo

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Unread post19 Jun 2013, 07:55

I wouldn't start making plans to crow in Slowman's face just yet. The F-35 may be at a disadvantage with a hard cost-ceiling.
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Unread post21 Jun 2013, 11:32

It appears that all competitors have problems with the hard cost-ceiling.

Competitors' price tags exceed Seoul's fighter jet budget
By Kim Eun-jung

SEOUL, June 21 (Yonhap) -- Two American aerospace companies and one European firm vying for South Korea's fighter jet procurement have failed to propose prices below the 8.3 trillion won (US$7.3 million) budget in this week's initial bidding, officials said Friday, leading to another round of bidding.

[..]

For three days from Tuesday, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) carried out a total of 20 bidding sessions but none of their proposals were accepted due to their proposals above the budget, officials said.

The state procurement agency has officially said they are looking for affordable yet highly-capable aircraft, but it was widely expected that the companies would propose prices that exceed Seoul's budget and adopt a wait-and-see approach during the sessions.

If prices proposed by three firms exceed the budget approved by the parliament last year, the acquisition plan needs re-examination by the finance ministry, which handles state budget allocations.

Unlike the two other companies that offer aircraft through direct commercial sales, Lockheed Martin, which sells the F-35 through the foreign military sales program by the U.S. government, did not submit either a fixed price or a maximum price during the bidding, a DAPA official with knowledge of the bidding process said.

If F-35A is selected, experts say the South Korean government will have to pay prices equivalent to those offered to the U.S. Air Force each year from 2017 to 2021, sparking speculation over a potential rise in price for the stealth jet which has been plagued with cost overruns.

Once the process is completed, DAPA will assess the three jets before making a final decision in a meeting slated for early next month, according to officials.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 0315F.HTML
"Do not be hasty."
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Unread post21 Jun 2013, 19:28

What a lot of HOOhaa this is - even the budget can be increased - OMG!.... :D

All 3 bidders fail to meet budget Second bidding starts Tuesday 21 Jun 2013 By Kang Seung-woo
"All three companies vying for the supply of F-X III fighters to Korea have reportedly placed bids that exceed Korea’s procurement price.

Lockheed Martin with its F-35 Lightning II, Boeing with the under-development F-15 Silent Eagle and the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company (EADS) with its Eurofighter Tranche 3 Typhoon are in the competition.

The budget for 60 aircraft is 8.3 trillion won, but according to Yonhap News an official involved in the final bid stage said all three have quoted prices beyond Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA)’s budget.

DAPA declined to confirm the report.

The delayed bidding for the fighter replacement program started Tuesday. DAPA is scheduled choose a winner at the end of June should it receive an affordable offer.

DAPA is standing firm on its available budget.

The Typhoo and the Silent Eagle will be purchased through direct commercial sale (DCS), while the F-35 will be sold on the foreign military sale (FMS) program, in which Washington would broker a contract between Seoul and Lockheed Martin. Currently, the U.S. Air Department is participating in the bidding instead of Lockheed Martin.

As the F-35 is being manufactured and simultaneously tested, the U.S. government has turned down DAPA’s calls to offer a fixed price and if the F-35 is selected to replace the aging fleet of F-4s and F-5s, its price will be decided each year according to the supply price to the U.S. Air Force.

Meanwhile, the Naeil Shinmun, a local evening daily, said the Finance Ministry rejected a request for more money to finance the project.

If the contract exceeds the entire program budget, DAPA can ask the ministry to increase the budget up to 20 percent.


The F-35 stealth jet is seen as the front-runner in the three-way race, but the Defense Security Cooperation Agency expected in April that a potential FMS of 60 F-35s would cost an estimated $10.8 billion, although Lockheed Martin said the final cost of an F-35 program for Korea will go down.

Korea plans to start bringing in the new fighter jets from August 2017. "

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 37885.html
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neurotech

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Unread post21 Jun 2013, 20:13

treebeard wrote:It appears that all competitors have problems with the hard cost-ceiling.

I don't think the F-15SE is going to be much cheaper, considering no production orders have been received. Remember the EPAF F-16s were purchased at a cost of $6m unit cost ceiling, but the extras cost a bit more...

The other thing is that Korea produces F-15 and F-16 components for both Korean and US production, including composites, so perhaps a generous offset deal could be arranged by LM to make it work out under the cost ceiling.
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Unread post22 Jun 2013, 22:32

I find this bit interesting:

Currently, the U.S. Air Department is participating in the bidding instead of Lockheed Martin.


Does this mean that if the F-35 wins it isn't the evil Lockheed Martin to be blamed but rather their lackey, the U.S. Air Department? :lol: I hope the likes of ELP etc remember that...
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Unread post22 Jun 2013, 23:00

treebeard wrote:It appears that all competitors have problems with the hard cost-ceiling.
Did not see that coming, but I probably should have.
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slowman5

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Unread post22 Jun 2013, 23:24

I can now report back with a confidence that the F-35 will not win the Korean contest.

You maybe aware from above news reports that no bid can win unless the winning bidder's price is within budget. Right now, only Boeing and EADS are actually price bidding, while the US DoD representatives aren't because it is against the FMS regulation to offer a bid where the US DoD would lose money on. Accordingly the US DoD officials have submitted an estimated price schedule for 2017~2021 time period in place of a price bid and has abstained from the bidding process, leaving Boeing and EADS to duke it out among themselves.

The DAPA officials speaking off the record state yesterday that both Boeing and EADS's prices have dropped significantly from the initial $9+ billion bids and are confident that they should be able to hit the budget of $7.9 billion before the end of this month, so that they can declare a winner. The ROKAF appears to have a Plan B in case of the F-35 defeat, as they will now seek to buy Glower-class EW jets shortly after a jet other than the F-35 wins.

The F-35's only chance is if there are no bids priced at $7.9 billion at the end of this month, at which point the Treasury would increase the budget to $9.5 billion which is more to the US DoD's liking, but you can be sure Boeing won't let the bidding go to that stage where the F-35 would suddenly have a better than 50% chance of a win.

The prospective F-35 defeat in this tender will have tremendous implications for the JSF program, as JSF partners sitting on the fence decide to bail out and switch to their own open bid contests.
Last edited by slowman5 on 22 Jun 2013, 23:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post22 Jun 2013, 23:26

spazsinbad wrote:What a lot of HOOhaa this is - even the budget can be increased - OMG!.... :D


This is only if there are no bids within budget. Then the budget can be increased by 20% to $9.5 billion, which is what the US DoD maybe hoping for right now.

But you can bet Boeing which has a 80% historical win probability in Korean tenders won't let things go to that stage and end the bidding contest with a final tender of $7.9 billion.
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