LHA/D mods to operate F-35

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post31 May 2013, 01:27

Are the B&SS boys still running? http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... /f-35c.htm [link not work now]
"The JSF Basing and Shipboard Suitability (B&SS) team ensures that the F-35 Air System is compatible with and operationally supportable from all JSF basing options, and provides a single point-of-contact within the JSF Program for all matters relating to the JSF aircraft's suitability for operations at each of its basing options, which includes all CONUS/OCONUS shore bases, U.S. Navy aircraft carriers and L class ships, and UK Royal Navy carriers. Additionally, the team serves as the JSF program's primary interface with ship development programs such as the USN's future carrier CVNX, the USN's replacement for its LHA amphibious assault ship currently referred to as LHA(R), and the UK RN's future carrier CV(F).

The primary tool for assessment, verification, and design influence for basing and ship suitability is the BASS checklist which is comprised of over 300 line items consisting of relevant basing explicit requirements, prior military specifications and standards, and recognized good design practices developed in conjunction with LM. The JPO BASS team coordinates with LM and reviews BASS Assessment Reports (BARs) for each line checklist line item...."
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Unread post31 May 2013, 02:03

Not as the BASS.
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Unread post01 Jun 2013, 23:01

Relax all, I'm still here with another detail - like the F-35B apparently won't be operating from their "prime movers" at IOC.

"The corps’ F-35B will initially operate from land bases, as the planned operation from Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) will require significant modifications to accomodate the STOVL jet fighters. According US Navy Admiral Jonathan Greenert, chief of naval operations, certain modifications for the Wasp-class LHDs ship have already been designed. According to Aviation Week, The modifications are intended to offset the stresses associated with JSF exhaust during vertical landing. Extra shielding will be required, protecting vulnerable elements on the deck, that cold be vulnerable to the heat generated by the jet exhaust. The Navy has not disclosed how long it will take to implement the modifications across the LHD/LHA fleet."

http://defense-update.com/20130531_firs ... years.html
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spazsinbad

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Unread post01 Jun 2013, 23:15

Cool. :D
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Unread post02 Jun 2013, 00:56

Hence the "I" in IOC that stands for Initial :)
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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neptune

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Unread post02 Jun 2013, 02:40

maus92 wrote:Relax all, I'm still here with another detail - like the F-35B apparently won't be operating from their "prime movers" at IOC.

...


..."significant modifications"??; please detail your source for "significant" as it is not mentioned in the several press releases that have been identified here.
..."According US Navy Admiral Jonathan Greenert"; some of the modifications were performed before the "shipboard trials" for the "Bee" by simply adding heating/ acoustic insulation; no struts or bulkheads or stringers were added to the metal structure of the Wasp, other than to support the testing sensor installations.
...."According to Aviation Week"; BS was forecasting that the melted deck was imminent on each and every landing; which didn't occur during the 70+ Wasp vertical landings and STOs. BS is not a credible sole source based on the established/ documented animosity to the F-35 program. BS has an interesting point of view but has not proven to be non-biased with his cherry picked facts.

Please don't mistake my "nit picking"; for modifications (equipment relocations, etc.) will occur as a result of the tests but "significant" to the Navy is not the same as "significant" at my house. I am interested in any documented mechanical/ structural modifications as they relate to the deck and the performance of the Thermion as initially tested on the Wasp by the V-22 prior to the "Bee Shipboard Trials". The V-22, when left to idle in position for extended periods has in fact warped the deck plates, thus an immediate revision to procedures.

As we've seen where one goes, the other may follow; ie. V-22s for CODs on the CVNs. By the time the "Bug Mafia" has realized that the (other bug) "Bee" may be attacking the "Bug Base", they may have waited too late to act by only responding to the "Sea". :D
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Unread post02 Jun 2013, 07:15

Based on airframe lifetime left, it is my understanding that the first F-35Bs will be racing to replace the Marine Hornets whose life is coming to the end. That as much as anything will account for the Harrier's continuing to stand main deck duty. I imagine they will have the deck issues sorted out on at least a few of the LH's in two years guys, as budgets and schedules allow. This isn't next week. it's 2015 and December at that
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Unread post02 Jun 2013, 23:15

maus92 wrote:Relax all, I'm still here with another detail - like the F-35B apparently won't be operating from their "prime movers" at IOC.

"The corps’ F-35B will initially operate from land bases, as the planned operation from Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) will require significant modifications to accomodate the STOVL jet fighters. According US Navy Admiral Jonathan Greenert, chief of naval operations, certain modifications for the Wasp-class LHDs ship have already been designed. According to Aviation Week, The modifications are intended to offset the stresses associated with JSF exhaust during vertical landing. Extra shielding will be required, protecting vulnerable elements on the deck, that cold be vulnerable to the heat generated by the jet exhaust. The Navy has not disclosed how long it will take to implement the modifications across the LHD/LHA fleet."

http://defense-update.com/20130531_firs ... years.html
It's been known for months that the first operational F-35Bs are going to Kadena AFB; plus, I'd be interested to hear what (if any) modifications LHA-6 is needing.
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Unread post03 Jun 2013, 22:55

gtx wrote:
popcorn wrote:Poor Bill ,, now reduced to "I told you so" journalism.


Oh, and sounding like an APA fanboy too:

Combat aircraft are the traditional Paris air show scene-stealers. But it has been a long time since there was an undisputed vedette to hog the limelight—a gap that the Sukhoi Su-35S fighter could fill this year as it makes its debut outside Russia.

Even two years ago, at the MAKS show in Moscow, the Su-35S—combining the proven aerodynamics of the T-10 family with a new integrated flight and propulsion control system including 3-D thrust-vectoring—showed some moves that no other aircraft has emulated in public, including a seamless transition from a dynamic deceleration (“Cobra” maneuver) into a low-airspeed turn, and flat spins—inverted and upright—under full control.

Any such demonstrations will be followed by a chorus of the usual suspects noting that “air show maneuvers” don't equate to air combat capability. However, flight demonstrations are not aerobatic tricks. Unpredictable flight paths challenge the guidance algorithms of any missile system and rapid nose-pointing can permit a short-range missile launch with a greater kill probability.






http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 579886.xml :roll:


Always exciting to see the latest iteration from the Brezhnev era stealing an airshow reporters heart. :roll:
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Unread post07 Jun 2013, 20:15

XanderCrews wrote:
gtx wrote:
popcorn wrote:Poor Bill ,, now reduced to "I told you so" journalism.


Oh, and sounding like an APA fanboy too:

Combat aircraft are the traditional Paris air show scene-stealers. But it has been a long time since there was an undisputed vedette to hog the limelight—a gap that the Sukhoi Su-35S fighter could fill this year as it makes its debut outside Russia.

Even two years ago, at the MAKS show in Moscow, the Su-35S—combining the proven aerodynamics of the T-10 family with a new integrated flight and propulsion control system including 3-D thrust-vectoring—showed some moves that no other aircraft has emulated in public, including a seamless transition from a dynamic deceleration (“Cobra” maneuver) into a low-airspeed turn, and flat spins—inverted and upright—under full control.

Any such demonstrations will be followed by a chorus of the usual suspects noting that “air show maneuvers” don't equate to air combat capability. However, flight demonstrations are not aerobatic tricks. Unpredictable flight paths challenge the guidance algorithms of any missile system and rapid nose-pointing can permit a short-range missile launch with a greater kill probability.






http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 579886.xml :roll:


Always exciting to see the latest iteration from the Brezhnev era stealing an airshow reporters heart. :roll:


In a world where weapons targeting can be done by merely looking in the direction of the target, the absolute importance of pointing the nose of one's aircraft has been diminished significantly. Tis why everyone with a helmet cueing/targeting system and an hobs missile is about even WVR.
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Unread post07 Jun 2013, 22:48

Couple other notes --

Though its label suggests otherwise, Thermion is simply a new non-slid material. It has less thermal insulating performance than the current standard non-skid (heats up faster, cools down quicker), but is more resistant to both the acute and extended effects of aircraft exhaust. Good investment for reduced costs over time.

USMC jets will first deploy to Iwakuni, not Kadena.
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Unread post07 Jun 2013, 22:59

I wonder what deck non-skid was being tested here (probably the old stuff?). However I have read that THERMION has been under test on various unnamed ships. Maybe I'll look for the latest THERMION news later. Anyway have a look at the LPD testing just down from the top of this page:

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... &start=135

VX-31 completes AV-8B LPD operability testing 2012
"...“Thermal data collected was highly valuable to thermal engineers as they look forward to predicting the insulating effects of the non-skid material,” said Rothermel. “The flight deck heated and cooled much slower than expected due to the insulating nature of the non-skid material...."

http://secureanr.mediaspanonline.com/ch ... ty-testing
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post07 Jun 2013, 23:24

That world famous 'SWP' guy turns up here also (comment section): http://navy-matters.blogspot.com.au/201 ... ts-up.html
And... Just to reiterate what was said at the time of the F-35B Wasp Oct 2011 test on THERMION:

F-35B completes first sea trials on USS Wasp 24 Oct 2011
"...Ansis Kalnajs, better known as “AK,” a topside design and integration technical warrant for Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA), and his team of 31 engineers collected data to capture the effects of the F-35 on flight deck and superstructure components.

“We have been collecting data on how the main engine effects deck edge equipment,” said Kalnajs. “As well as thermal load stresses to the structure and the acoustic effects.”

“We got a sufficient amount of data and real good assessments for the road ahead,” he said.

Also being tested is a newer non-skid deck surface, Thermion, which is supported by a mechanical bond of ceramic and aluminum that makes the surface more resistant to extreme heat and better endures the wear and tear of flight operations. The Thermion covers landing spot nine on the flight deck, a small area used for vertical landings.

“The Thermion shows no signs of heat stress, which is good for the F-35, and eventually good for all surface ships,” said Kalnajs...."

http://www.thermioninc.com/pdf/NAVAIRNewsStory-4802.pdf (0.4Mb)
OR
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=4802
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post08 Jun 2013, 13:12

spazsinbad wrote:I wonder what deck non-skid was being tested here (probably the old stuff?). However I have read that THERMION has been under test on various unnamed ships. Maybe I'll look for the latest THERMION news later. Anyway have a look at the LPD testing just down from the top of this page:

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... &start=135

VX-31 completes AV-8B LPD operability testing 2012
"...“Thermal data collected was highly valuable to thermal engineers as they look forward to predicting the insulating effects of the non-skid material,” said Rothermel. “The flight deck heated and cooled much slower than expected due to the insulating nature of the non-skid material...."

http://secureanr.mediaspanonline.com/ch ... ty-testing


The old stuff.
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Unread post20 Jun 2013, 00:29

DR. J. MICHAEL GILMORE, DIRECTOR, OPERATIONAL TEST AND EVALUATION, OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE; BEFORE THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE ON DEFENSE 19 Jun 2013
"...Ship Integration
The program plans to conduct the second set of ship trials with two F-35B test aircraft in August 2013. Test objectives for this deployment include conducting night operations, carrying stores, evaluating the carrier landing system, and expanding the take-off and vertical landing envelope for varying wind-over-deck conditions and for a broader range of aircraft weight and center of gravity conditions. Flying qualities with an updated version of control software, based on data taken during the first deployment, will be assessed. Two SDD test aircraft will be operated by program test pilots during the test. Minimal changes to USS Wasp are anticipated, as this will be the second deployment to the ship. Some restrictions to the electromagnetic environment on the ship may be necessary as a result of the electromagnetic environmental effects testing on the aircraft. The logistics support environment will not be representative of fleet operations; rather, it will be similar to that used in the first ship trials in 2011 that employed workarounds to reach back to land-based systems and personnel as necessary to sustain operations.

The test center also plans to train additional test pilots to be qualified in STOVL operations for the deployment, and for conducting land-based work-up maneuvers...."

http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com.au/2 ... needs.html PDF download 107Kb
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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