Russian anti-stealth weaponry

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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TC

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Unread post02 Mar 2007, 02:46

idesof wrote:what IS the (approximate) RCS of your standard 500/1000/2000 lbs. JDAM??? What about the SDB? Has any attempt been made to apply RAM to any of the above?


Don't go there...

There are weapons that the bad guys will have much difficulty seeing, before they are vaporized. I'll leave it at that. If someone else wishes to jump in, tread lightly. I'll simply quote JR:

JR007 wrote:Fox One to the face,
you never saw it.
Fox One to the face,
you really bought it.
At the merge today,
we blew your Sierra away...
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sferrin

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Unread post02 Mar 2007, 15:16

elp wrote:
urmomma158 wrote:LOL trust me the Tor M1 won't do any goood against an F 22 or B-2 even if it's in the engagement range and altitude of the Spirit and Raptor. But thinking a JDAM is gonna take out the Tor is sheer stupidity. These systems are extremely mobile and no bomb on coordinate weapon will hit it. You need something like AN SDB II,JSOW,JASSM etc. LOCAAS was good until it was cancelled but the SMACM program seems interesting.


Depends. JDAM can take it out if it doesn't move. A snap shot with a JDAM could be a minute or less of bomb fly time. So... that is the time that one would have to make a decision to move. And oh btw even know that a weapon is on it's way down and/or toward them. JDAM has killed plenty of mobile hardware.... that at the time, wasn't moving.


I think what he was trying to say is that TOR is designed from the get go to take out PGMs. That's it's job. They even focused on getting the cost of the missile down as low as possible because they realized firing a million dollar missile at a $35,000 dollar JDAM would be impractical. Apparently the thing is command guided and the only electronics on board are the things necessary for it to fly. Of course that would make it a nice target for an EMP weapon but I guess you can't have everything.
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squirl

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Unread post21 Mar 2007, 00:58

Is it not conceivable that an aircraft could have an outer radar transparent surface in addition to an inner surface, with the plasma contained between the two layers? This would overcome the obstacles of a "plasma trail" and the need to regenerate plasma lost to the relative wind. Even if the panels needed to contain a cloud of an inch or more in thickness, I'm sure such a feat would be attainable. Granted, the entire aircraft would need to be covered by such panels, but stealth seems to present unique challenges in all its forms.
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Unread post21 Mar 2007, 20:57

Shonuff wrote:Also, I've heard that the S-400 was so super special because it can share its data with other sites and can use other sites like multiple receivers. That got me thinking. Say radar A, B and C are working together to detect aircraft. Radar A sends a pulse of radiation in the direction a stealth aircraft happens be flying. Whatever amount of radiation that actually reaches the aircraft is totally butchered (absorbed and scattered in almost every direction). This means that radars B and C will probably not get enough radar waves to even detect the stealth. So what good would it do to try to share info or use multiple receivers when those other receivers cant see sh!t?


Not quite right. The concept is sensor fusion. Let's say you have three radars. Each one thinks they see something out there but none of them can stay on him long enough to start a track. But, if you could combine all the stray hits into a single integrated system, there could be enough hits now to establish a track, or at least a strong enough trend where you could at least vector a fighter.

What you discussed was bi-static radars, where radar A sends out the pulse and Radar B picks it up. Since one of the basics of RF LO is to bounce the radar signal in a direction other than from which it came, Bi-static receivers could in theory pick up those off-boresight reflections. What makes this so hard though is for a radar to work the precise instant of transmission and reception of the pulses must be known (easy for a single radar that transmits and receives) to calculate the range, and (b) bi-static radars are very susceptible to multipath ground clutter.
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essam

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Unread post25 Jan 2013, 17:23

unfortunately it is exist and russian created s-400 missle witch there is no fifth generation fighter capable hiding from it :( :(
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post25 Jan 2013, 17:54

Who invited the Necromancing Troll??
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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BDF

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Unread post25 Jan 2013, 21:52

Don't forget the impeccable track record ground based air-defenses have had in stopping a determined air campaign...
When it comes to fighting Raptors, "We die wholesale..."
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Unread post26 Jan 2013, 00:29

I was so psyched about the Raptor's VLO characteristics too...

Given this information, it all seems so pointless. We may as well turn the Raptor fleet over to Iran. Next up, props to the Navy who've been right all along. Hornets, Super-Hornets, Growler Hornets, Hawkeye Hornets and the soon to be released Super-Duper Hornet - for Australia/APA.

Hornets forever...
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post26 Jan 2013, 02:23

mixelflick wrote:I was so psyched about the Raptor's VLO characteristics too...

Given this information, it all seems so pointless. We may as well turn the Raptor fleet over to Iran. Next up, props to the Navy who've been right all along. Hornets, Super-Hornets, Growler Hornets, Hawkeye Hornets and the soon to be released Super-Duper Hornet - for Australia/APA.

Hornets forever...


Yes, the F-22 is a big failure! I'm with you, Hornets all the way!

:lol:
I'm watching...
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borntoholdout

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Unread post16 Feb 2013, 06:23

This thread is a 6 year old joke. The likelihood of stealth being rendered obsolete overnight is slim at best. :doh:
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Feb 2013, 19:45

Scorpion1alpha wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I was so psyched about the Raptor's VLO characteristics too...

Given this information, it all seems so pointless. We may as well turn the Raptor fleet over to Iran. Next up, props to the Navy who've been right all along. Hornets, Super-Hornets, Growler Hornets, Hawkeye Hornets and the soon to be released Super-Duper Hornet - for Australia/APA.

Hornets forever...


Yes, the F-22 is a big failure! I'm with you, Hornets all the way!

:lol:


I LOVE the Raptor!

However, the Navy/Marines and several other countries won't have the opportunity to love it, caress it and care for it like we do... :)

Fortunately, a world full of Hornets, Super Hornets, Super-Duper Hornets etc. is equally exciting, if nothing else for the endless variations to come. Word has it Boeing is working on a VTOL version too! This would be exclusive to Australia, designed with a "do less with less" mentality. The VTOL Super-Duper Hornet will combine all the shortcomings of the Super-Hornet and layer in F-35 like cost over-runs, with a focus on even worse kinematic performance. It's sure to drive Karlos Kopp/APA to write another scathing hyper-ADD rant on their web page. Might even be enough for him to appear before the gov't again with another pseudo simulation where 2 Super Flankers decimate 12 squadrons of RAAF Super-Duper Hornets AND F-35's.

Hornets forever...
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borntoholdout

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Unread post17 Feb 2013, 21:53

We should just make a law that bans all fighter aircraft. That way no one will have aircraft to fight with and see if that works.
Better yet lets just ban war completely.

Sorry. Sarcasm is my native language. I've also been watching to many gun control debates :lol: I'll go away now.
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post18 Feb 2013, 02:44

mixelflick wrote:
Scorpion1alpha wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I was so psyched about the Raptor's VLO characteristics too...

Given this information, it all seems so pointless. We may as well turn the Raptor fleet over to Iran. Next up, props to the Navy who've been right all along. Hornets, Super-Hornets, Growler Hornets, Hawkeye Hornets and the soon to be released Super-Duper Hornet - for Australia/APA.

Hornets forever...


Yes, the F-22 is a big failure! I'm with you, Hornets all the way!

:lol:


I LOVE the Raptor!

However, the Navy/Marines and several other countries won't have the opportunity to love it, caress it and care for it like we do... :)

Fortunately, a world full of Hornets, Super Hornets, Super-Duper Hornets etc. is equally exciting, if nothing else for the endless variations to come. Word has it Boeing is working on a VTOL version too! This would be exclusive to Australia, designed with a "do less with less" mentality. The VTOL Super-Duper Hornet will combine all the shortcomings of the Super-Hornet and layer in F-35 like cost over-runs, with a focus on even worse kinematic performance. It's sure to drive Karlos Kopp/APA to write another scathing hyper-ADD rant on their web page. Might even be enough for him to appear before the gov't again with another pseudo simulation where 2 Super Flankers decimate 12 squadrons of RAAF Super-Duper Hornets AND F-35's.

Hornets forever...


Ah...apparently someone is thinking way ahead of us. Knowing there won't be enough F-22s to go around, some brilliant minds came up with this:

Behold, in mini mockup form, the F/A/E/K/V-18/E/F SUPER DUPER UBER HORNET!

Image

This will be the ultimate of all tactical aircraft. A do-everything / Swiss Army Knife / one-size fits all fighter.

This will be perfect for Australia and the U.S. Who needs the F-22 when you can get this!

The F/A//E/K/V-18/E/F Super Duper Uber Hornet all the way baby!
I'm watching...
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mixelflick

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Unread post18 Feb 2013, 14:16

Absolutely BRILLIANT! How you got this out of Boeing's facility, I'll never know (hopefully it didn't violate any board rules concerning classified information, etc).

Now what we need to do is get the prototype with the name "Carlo Kopp" and GIB "Peter Goon" stenciled on there. We ship that off to APA for a free introductory flight. Guaranteed to result in 2 things:

1.) Absurd 20+ page diatribe on APA's website as to what a dog it is
2.) Computer simulation showing 2 Super Flankers wiping out the entire RAAF inventory of Hornets, Super-Hornets, Growlers, Super-Duper-Uber Hornets AND F-35's.

At this point, Australia's sole hope lies in Dr. Kopp's ability to personally restore the F-111 fleet to "Super Ardvark" status. It'll use Russian engines, plasma stealth, all that Russian avionic/weapons wizardry that works 100% of the time and of course, thrust vectoring.

I'd buy the Super-Duper-Uber Hornet in a second, and don't doubt the Navy/Gates would do the same.

Hornets forever...
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uclass

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Unread post18 Feb 2013, 22:15

essam wrote:unfortunately it is exist and russian created s-400 missle witch there is no fifth generation fighter capable hiding from it :( :(

The best an ADS can do, even if it does detect a stealth aircarft, is take a shot and then inevitably an ARM will be fired back, so it can either switch off its radar or get nailed. Given some of the ARM developments on the way, it has next to no chance of out-ranging them either and may get hit even if it switches off.
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