F-35 & T-50 PAK-FA Compete S. Korea + F-15E + Typhoon

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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stobiewan

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Unread post28 May 2012, 14:26

Well, the other argument is economic - a new build F15 of any flavour is a bit more expensive than the full rate production price on an F35A (twice as many engines etc) Effectively if the customer has access to F35A then you'd have to have a very pressing need to want to buy an SE I'd have thought.
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Unread post07 Jun 2012, 13:30

Controversy erupts over simulation test of F-35 in fighter jet purchase 07 June 2012

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 0315F.HTML

"SEOUL, June 7 (Yonhap) -- A plan to conduct performance tests of Lockheed Martin's F-35 using simulators, not an actual test flight by a South Korean pilot, has stirred up controversy here as Seoul prepares to buy an advanced fleet of stealth fighters...."

...On-site performance tests will be held in June for the F-35,,,

... "Because the F-35 is now under development, only F-35 pilots can fly it," a DAPA official said.

Instead, the DAPA asked Lockheed to conduct performance tests with simulators and a Korean pilot on board a different fighter jet and tracking the F-35, the official said...."

More B/S at the jump - I mean WTF?
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Unread post08 Jun 2012, 00:22

So Boeing actually has a representative SE for the Koreans to fly? Gimme a break..LOL
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Unread post08 Jun 2012, 00:52

From recent news report above: http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 0315F.HTML

"...On-site performance tests will be held in June for the F-35, in August for the F-15 SE and in September for the Eurofighter, according to officials at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), South Korea's state arms procurement agency, on Thursday.

While Boeing and EADS agreed to carry out performance tests through actual flights with a Korean pilot on board, Lockheed refused to do so, saying the radar-evading warplane is not in service and still under development...."
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Unread post08 Jun 2012, 01:01

spazsinbad wrote:From recent news report above: http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 0315F.HTML

"...On-site performance tests will be held in June for the F-35, in August for the F-15 SE and in September for the Eurofighter, according to officials at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), South Korea's state arms procurement agency, on Thursday.

While Boeing and EADS agreed to carry out performance tests through actual flights with a Korean pilot on board, Lockheed refused to do so, saying the radar-evading warplane is not in service and still under development...."


Yes, I noted said passages and am still curious what airframe Boeing is going to let the ROKAF test given that Boeing had ceased development work on the SEa,while back.. no canted tails, conformal,weapons bays at 10% development stage based on ndustry reports, etc.
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Unread post08 Jun 2012, 02:12

'popcorn' fair enough. I have not been following SE development. Here is something recent about it relevant to SK.

Is Boeing calling time on the stealthy F-15 Silent Eagle? Lockheed Martin hopes so. January 29, 2012 by Richard Clements

http://theaviationist.com/2012/01/29/south-korea/

"Silent Eagle, not to become reality?

The Korea Times has reported that there is a possibility that aviation giant Boeing may not full fill its promise to provide the stealthly version of it’s F-15 to South Korea.

In an article published on Jan. 25, titled Boeing may give up offering stealthy jet journalist Lee Tae-hoon wrote that “a source familiar with Boeing’s plan to modify its F-15s said little progress has been made in the making of the F-15SE, especially in the development of its conformal weapons bay (CWB), which allows the aircraft to carry weapons internally.”

According to the informed source “only 10 percent of work has been completed for the research and development of the F-15SE’s conformal weapons bay.”

Boeing’s proposal had included canted vertical stabilisers and a conformal weapons bay on each side of the aircraft to reduce the radar cross section of the aircraft, all compulsary requirements to Korea’s KX-III procurement program to acquire advanced jets. Seoul had removed these requirements to allow other manufacturers the chance to compete, although had signed a memorandum of understanding with Boeing back in 2010. However Boeing announced late on 2010 that it had suspended development of the proposed features.

Tae-hoon also reported that other industry officials noted that it will be physically impossible for Boeing to complete the development of the CWB and canted tails by the end of October this year when Seoul plans to finalize the deal after three to four months of evaluations and negotiations. “Boeing will most likely change their offer. They won’t offer the Silent Eagle” a senior official of Lockheed Martin, which is competing with Boeing and the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company (EADS) for the FX-III bid, said asking for anonymity.

“They are going to offer the F-15K because that’s the only plane they can deliver by 2016.”...

Not much more at the jump. OOooppss.
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Different info here:

Boeing makes big push with F-15 Silent Eagle tests for South Korea 27 Jan 2012 Jan 27, 2012 by Stephen Trimble– Flight Global

http://rpdefense.over-blog.com/article- ... 70824.html
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Unread post08 Jun 2012, 05:21

Boeing is apparently spending some money on the "International" version but this appears to be a broader initiative aimed at upgrading EAGLE users worldwide..neither the structural nor cockpit/sensors/avionics stuff is going to be ready to meet the ROKAF testing timetable though.. really only EF can demo a production jet at this time but am confident the simulation tests in the F-35 should satisfy the Koreans.
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Unread post09 Jun 2012, 01:40

Korean Air Force to test candidate fighters via simulators JUNE 08, 2012

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.ph ... 2060819728

"The Defense Acquisition Program Administration of Korea said Thursday that it test aircraft through simulators instead of flight tests for two of the three candidate models for the nation’s next-generation fighter jet project worth 10 trillion won (8.5 billion U.S. dollars).

The state-run agency said it will conduct on-site performance tests on Lockheed Martin’s F-35 and Boeing’s F15SE in the U.S. in July and August this year. Tests on the EADS Eurofighter in Europe will come in September.

The testing process will have Korean Air Force pilot inspectors board the candidate planes and check the performance of the aircraft, which accounts for a large portion of the overall evaluation score.

The problem is that because the development of the F-35 and F-15SE has yet to be completed, Air Force evaluators cannot board the real planes to conduct flight tests...."

Jump at the more? :D
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Unread post09 Jun 2012, 01:54

Boeing’s high hopes for the Super Hornet By Philip Ewing June 8th, 2012

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2012/06/08/boein ... er-hornet/

"Big B wants to keep its successful F/A-18E and F Super Hornets rolling off the line for as long as possible, and the company is dreaming up all sorts of enhancements to entice interest from foreign buyers and, who knows, maybe the U.S. Navy.

Company officials told our colleague John Reed this week that they’re looking into ways a Super Hornet could launch its own unmanned aerial vehicle — the company’s ScanEagle — which a Super Hornet’s crew could then vector into an area of interest.

Plus there could be other changes in the works for Es and Fs, Boeing says; anything to press the opportunity for sales while rival Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II takes longer than promised to materialize...."

Boing at the Jump! :-(
________________________

Come on Down! SuperHornetSellTime! :roll: Question: Has Dave flown an F-35 sim? If not please get him a ride. Tah. :twisted:

A visit to Boeing's Super Hornet plant... and full-dome sim By Dave Majumdar on June 8, 2012

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... ornet.html

"But the real highlight of the tour for me was an opportunity to fly Boeing full-domed simulator for the F/A-18F Block II...

...The simulator was in a word: awesome....

...We also did some carrier landings... Initially, the Boeing guys want me to use the auto-throttles, but I declined. (It's just not natural to me to not be able to control the throttle settings) Anyways, on my first try, my approach was good and I set the jet down smoothly on the deck, but as I pushed the throttles into full blower, the hook didn't catch a "cross deck pendant". So it was a bolter.... On my second attempt, I made it no problem. Not sure what my grade was, but I'm willing to bet it was the three-wire.

Incidentally, no one else made a trap, though John came close... (but with auto-throttles-if memory serves)...."

WOT? No SuperDuper can land on an aircraft carrier HEADlines? :roll: Anyways more at that damjump! :cry:
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Unread post09 Jun 2012, 06:12

I think the USN has made it quite clear that funding the F-35C is the priority and there is not going to be any new upgrade program for the SH fleet aside from those already identified.. those SH International upgrades did not sway the Navy's mind. I also don't see the RAAF willing to spend for these upgrades for what is intended to be an interim force. So that leaves Brazil and I'm pretty sure that Boeing did not propose the International super-duper model to them. The Indian MMRCA bid was a tuning point in the SH fortunes; maybe if the super-duper SH had been proposed instead of the vanilla SH, the outcome mighthavebeen different but that's water under the bridge. If they don't get Brazil, expect the line to begin shutting down,in the next couple of years.
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Unread post15 Jun 2012, 02:36

Seoul to rely on simulators to evaluate F-35 for F-X III contest Greg Waldron Singapore 14 June 2012

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... st-373006/

"South Korea's evaluation team for the F-X III competition for 60 fighters will evaluate the Lockheed Martin F-35 mainly through the use of simulators.

"At this time the F-35 fleet of 36 flying aircraft is fully occupied with test, training and delivery activities, so potential customers like [South] Korea are not able to fly the aircraft," Lockheed Martin said in an email to Flightglobal.

Tests of the F-35 are being conducted this month. Officials from Seoul's Defense Acquisition Programme Agency will evaluate the Boeing F-15 Silent Eagle in August, and the Eurofighter Typhoon in September.

While a South Korean pilot will not have the opportunity to fly an actual F-35, Lockheed says Seoul will receive a great deal of access to the system, mainly through the use of high-fidelity simulators including the Joint Strike Fighter's manned tactical simulator and handling qualities simulator.

"Korea will also have the opportunity to closely observe F-35 flight operations, discuss F-35 capabilities with US Air Force and Lockheed Martin test pilots, participate in pre-flight and post-flight pilot activities and observe or participate in numerous types of maintenance activities," the company says.

Al Norman, Lockheed's chief test pilot, will also visit Seoul in late June.

"Pilots from the USAF, the US Navy, the US Marine Corps, the UK, the Netherlands, Australia, Italy, Israel and Japan have extensively flown the high-fidelity simulator and verified it is the best tool to evaluate F-35 capabilities," Lockheed says. "All of the international nations who have selected and ordered the F-35 have evaluated its capabilities using the manned tactical simulator."..."
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Unread post15 Jun 2012, 03:06

Top arms procurement officer rapped for misspeaking on F-35 By Lee Tae-hoon 14 June 2012

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 13038.html

"...Lockheed has thus far refused to do so [to carry out performance tests through actual flights with a Korean pilot on board], saying it would be difficult for the U.S. government to allow a Korean pilot to fly the F-35, which is not in service.

“Only F-35 pilots can fly it since the new jet is still under development,” a DAPA official said.

He noted that DAPA has asked the U.S. defense giant Lockheed Martin to conduct performance tests with simulators and a Korean pilot on board a different fighter jet tracking the F-35.

“There are some limited areas for the F-15 SE, Eurofighter and F-35A that cannot be tested through actual flight testing,” a DAPA spokesman said, noting that simulator tests will be required for all three competitors.

“The limited areas will be tested on simulators.”

The official said, however, that the bidders would receive a low score during the evaluation test when they use simulators."
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Unread post20 Jun 2012, 13:55

I think something has been misunderstood or mistranslated but what the heck....

Korea suggests possible delay in picking winner for fighter jet bid 2012-06-20

http://view.koreaherald.com/kh/view.php ... 1391&cpv=0

"South Korea could put off a decision to select a supplier for a multi-billion-dollar purchase of advanced combat fighter jets if it is necessary for the "national interest," the head of the nation's arms procurement agency said Wednesday.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration reopened bidding Tuesday for the fighter-jet contract worth upward of 8.3 trillion won ($7.1 billion), a day after Boeing, Lockheed Martin and EADS submitted bids, citing errors in the relevant documents.

The DAPA set a new deadline for bids of July 5 and plans to select a winner in October. Boeing's F-15 SE, Lockheed's F-35 and the EADS Eurofighter are competing to win the huge deal.

"Our plan to make a decision by the end of October is not a deadline, but a target," DAPA commissioner Noh Dae-rae told Yonhap News Agency.

"We could delay the timing of selecting a supplier at any time if it is necessary for the national interest."

A controversy has erupted in South Korea that Lockheed's F-35 will undergo performance tests using simulators, not actual test flights with South Korean pilots.

While Boeing and EADS agreed to carry out performance tests through real flights with a Korean pilot on board, Lockheed refused to do so, saying its radar-evading aircraft is not in service and still under development, DAPA officials said.

Instead, the DAPA requested Lockheed conduct performance tests with simulators with a Korean pilot on board a different fighter jet tracking the F-35, officials said. [QUE?]

Noh said that the DAPA and Lockheed have been in talks over the request and the U.S. defense contractor will give an answer on Friday.

"If the U.S. side rejects our request, we will have no choice but to give a zero point in the criteria of flight-testing (of the F-35)," Noh said. [LM should call DAPA bluff] :D

The flight-test schedule of the single-seat F-35 has been delayed, raising concerns over rising costs and that the aircraft may not be available until 2020...."

NOthing else at URL.
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Unread post20 Jun 2012, 16:33

Really??

Does SK really expect the DoD to allow an untrained (on the F-35) pilot to fly the F-35 while doing some serious turning and burning?
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Unread post20 Jun 2012, 17:16

Maybe they should consider an arrangement to train a few RoKAF pilots at Eglin.
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