Will South Korea reject the F-35 ?

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river_otter

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 09:34

SpudmanWP wrote:I doubt that an AMRAAM leaving the F-22 is even touching the full airstream at the end of the -147 stroke due to the F-22 having a jet-blast deflector that deploys at the front of the bay when the bays open.


I'm pretty sure that deflector was deleted in the change from YF-22 to F-22. It just wasn't needed.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 10:27

Look an any pic of the F-22 with it's bay open, the deflector is there if you know what you are looking at.

Take a look and you will see a white bar that extends and obstructs the sawtooth forward edge of the bay.

Image

Image

Here are some ground shots where you can see the deflector deployed.

Image

Image

Last but not least, a closeup:

Image

From here:
http://www.jber.af.mil/shared/media/pho ... 0S-001.jpg
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deadseal

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 11:26

maus92 wrote:
deadseal wrote:whoever quoted an IRSTs as being able to have weaopns quality TWS or STT modes at any range usefull in a modern BVR environment is utterly wrong.



I think Lockheed Martin says so:

"IRST is a long range sensor system that passively detects and tracks airborne threats in advanced electronic attack and heavy radio frequency/infrared countermeasure environments. The high resolution characteristics of IRST provide dramatically improved raid cell count (40 times more accurate than radar) at maximum declaration ranges – information that can stand alone or be fused with other sensor data to enhance situational awareness, ensuring first-to-see, first-to-shoot capability.

The IRST scan volume is comparable to radar, with selectable scan volumes in azimuth and elevation, and can operate in either track-while-scan or single-target-track modes. Additionally, IRST provides autonomous, passive range on targets to develop a weapon-quality solution, as well as track data to enhance target engagement."

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/d ... rst-pc.pdf

And:

"ORLANDO, Fla., February 24, 2012 – Lockheed Martin’s [NYSE:LMT] SpectIR transportable infrared search and track (IRST) pod successfully acquired, tracked and provided a weapons cue during a recent live fire flight test conducted by the Air National Guard (ANG).

The SpectIR pod successfully acquired the target on the first pass and maintained a tight track throughout the engagement, providing the pilot with a passive, weapons-quality cue that enabled weapon employment. By incorporating IRST capabilities into a pod form, the SpectIR system provides long-range, passive infrared detection and tracking of airborne threats in a transportable configuration."

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/p ... ility.html


Im not saying that a modern IRST can't see a target..it is azimuth only....unless I am missing something and they tack on a laser.
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maus92

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 15:51

deadseal wrote:
maus92 wrote:
deadseal wrote:whoever quoted an IRSTs as being able to have weaopns quality TWS or STT modes at any range usefull in a modern BVR environment is utterly wrong.



I think Lockheed Martin says so:

"IRST is a long range sensor system that passively detects and tracks airborne threats in advanced electronic attack and heavy radio frequency/infrared countermeasure environments. The high resolution characteristics of IRST provide dramatically improved raid cell count (40 times more accurate than radar) at maximum declaration ranges – information that can stand alone or be fused with other sensor data to enhance situational awareness, ensuring first-to-see, first-to-shoot capability.

The IRST scan volume is comparable to radar, with selectable scan volumes in azimuth and elevation, and can operate in either track-while-scan or single-target-track modes. Additionally, IRST provides autonomous, passive range on targets to develop a weapon-quality solution, as well as track data to enhance target engagement."

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/d ... rst-pc.pdf

And:

"ORLANDO, Fla., February 24, 2012 – Lockheed Martin’s [NYSE:LMT] SpectIR transportable infrared search and track (IRST) pod successfully acquired, tracked and provided a weapons cue during a recent live fire flight test conducted by the Air National Guard (ANG).

The SpectIR pod successfully acquired the target on the first pass and maintained a tight track throughout the engagement, providing the pilot with a passive, weapons-quality cue that enabled weapon employment. By incorporating IRST capabilities into a pod form, the SpectIR system provides long-range, passive infrared detection and tracking of airborne threats in a transportable configuration."

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/p ... ility.html


Im not saying that a modern IRST can't see a target..it is azimuth only....unless I am missing something and they tack on a laser.


No laser: "Additionally, IRST provides autonomous, passive range on targets to develop a weapon-quality solution, as well as track data to enhance target engagement"
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wrightwing

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 17:07

maus92 wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Nothing about that declares what is "long range" or what that is relative to.


Shh, that's a secret...

But you are correct that is doesn't say the ranges, or the level of sensor integration required to maintain the track in various engagement scenarios.

Interesting that LM is trying to position it as a BMD enabler, much like they did with DAS.



There's a big difference between spotting a TBM, and a jet.
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maus92

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 17:36

wrightwing wrote:
maus92 wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Nothing about that declares what is "long range" or what that is relative to.


Shh, that's a secret...

But you are correct that is doesn't say the ranges, or the level of sensor integration required to maintain the track in various engagement scenarios.

Interesting that LM is trying to position it as a BMD enabler, much like they did with DAS.



There's a big difference between spotting a TBM, and a jet.


I agree, but spotting ballistic missiles is tertiary to the IRST sensor planned for the Super Hornet. It's something that manufacturer says it can do - why you would want or need BMD capability on a low endurance tactical jet is another matter - which also applies to the F-35. It might be more useful for pinpointing mobile missile launchers in a Scud busting or SEAD role.
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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 20:44

Back to Korea: Seoul fears delivery delays of F-35 jets By Lee Tae-hoon 06 March 2012

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 06346.html

"Chances are high for the government to pick the F-35 fighter jet as the mainstay of the Air Force later this year, but it is doubtful whether the new aircraft can be delivered to Korea as promised from 2016.

Seoul is expected to announce the winner of the bidding for its next-generation fighter acquisition project in October this year in line with its plan to introduce 10 advanced jets in 2016 and 2017, respectively, and the remaining 40 by 2020.

“Lockheed Martin officials recently informed us that the F-35 development and testing is progressing faster than anticipated and that they are confident of delivering fully operational fighter jets by 2016,” a senior official of the state-run Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said Tuesday.

“But it is dubious whether their claims can be accepted as the F-35 program, which is still in the early stage of flight testing, continues to encounter development delays and cost overruns.”..."

Much more at the JUMP!
RAN FAA A4G: http://tinyurl.com/ctfwb3t http://tinyurl.com/ccmlenr http://www.youtube.com/user/bengello/videos
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post06 Mar 2012, 21:04

The only problem is final software, not plane production. All recent docs put the completion of Blk 3F in the 2015 timeframe.

Does South Korea expect those 10 in 2016 to be delivered in SK or will the first ones share training at a stateside base?

Did the F-15Ks spend time in the US or did they get delivered straight to SK?
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river_otter

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Unread post07 Mar 2012, 05:28

SpudmanWP wrote:Look an any pic of the F-22 with it's bay open, the deflector is there if you know what you are looking at.


It's not the big snowplow of the YF-22, but I have to say it does look like you're right, something's still there.
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tacf-x

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Unread post07 Mar 2012, 06:23

I see it too. It's there.
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hb_pencil

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Unread post07 Mar 2012, 06:32

spazsinbad wrote:Back to Korea: Seoul fears delivery delays of F-35 jets By Lee Tae-hoon 06 March 2012

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 06346.html

"Chances are high for the government to pick the F-35 fighter jet as the mainstay of the Air Force later this year, but it is doubtful whether the new aircraft can be delivered to Korea as promised from 2016.


Does anybody wish that slowman was still here to explain how this could happen?
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popcorn

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Unread post07 Mar 2012, 07:03

hb_pencil wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Back to Korea: Seoul fears delivery delays of F-35 jets By Lee Tae-hoon 06 March 2012

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 06346.html

"Chances are high for the government to pick the F-35 fighter jet as the mainstay of the Air Force later this year, but it is doubtful whether the new aircraft can be delivered to Korea as promised from 2016.


Does anybody wish that slowman was still here to explain how this could happen?


Be careful what you wish for..
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river_otter

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Unread post07 Mar 2012, 10:06

hb_pencil wrote:Does anybody wish that slowman was still here to explain how this could happen?


All I can imagine is Gollum from Lord of the Rings railing incoherently against the "nasty false hobbitses" reporting this story.
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stobiewan

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Unread post07 Mar 2012, 11:43

Lieven wrote::: Janitorial Service Message: Slowman2 has been banned. So will other persistent trolls be. ::



Just caught this! :highfive:

Annoying troll, no interest in actually moving the discussion forward - and brings the tone of the place down.

Ian
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