'theBIGfish' Question Repeated - Passed Stealth TEST?

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 03:26

'thebigfish' asked elsewhere: "I keep reading on some blogs that "the F35 has failed the initial test of its stealth capability". Is that right or are some trolls spreading rumours on other Blogs. Any info appreciated."

Short answer it passed. More info to follow....

Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Fighter Jet Passes Initial Stealth Hurdle By Tony Capaccio - May 5, 2011

"Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT)’s F-35 fighter jet has passed its initial radar-evasion testing and there are no “major potential changes contemplated for any of the stealth design,” according to the U.S. program office.

The program office has collected radar cross-section information on the Air Force version of the aircraft and “we are very pleased, very pleased,” U.S. Navy Vice Admiral David Venlet, the program manager, said in an interview.

Still, “this is not a one-test ‘Eureka’ and it’s done,” he said....

...Venlet said he expected similar results from the Navy and Marine Corps short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing versions when they are tested. Lockheed Martin in November measured two early- production Air Force models, which also passed with no “major variances,” Venlet’s office said.

“So we do not have major concerns,” Venlet said. “We are always going to pay attention to it, because if you don’t, it will always be a source of rework and cost growth. But as early as we are, we are very pleased.”...

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-0 ... urdle.html

There is more to the story about attention having to be paid to this issue - go to the URL.

F-35A Stealth Test OK 2 page thread discussion 05 May 2011
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... ealth.html
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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shingen

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 04:40

I keep reading on some blogs...some trolls spreading rumours...

Where did he go, Keypubs or APA?
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thebigfish

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 06:04

Um Sorry for posting on program updates (seemed logical based on other postings there) but anyway. The Blog I first saw this was australianaviation.com.au by a Peter (Goon?) and then after putting the key words into google several other blogs came up and this statement was repeated. I noticed that almost all the statements where really cut and paste of the same posting sprouting the same arguments against the F35. So I assume maybe this Peter posts the same words on several blogs. (wonder why he does not come on here?)

Now as a (hopefully) rational thinking person this really sounds like a crusade. If what he said about the F35 failing stealth is false it really does give the unaware/inexperienced (like me) a sense that it is "worse than we thought". It is correct to absorb the facts and make a rational argument one way or another. I just dont get the justification in doing it another way.

Thanks for the info at least it looks like the F35 is doing okay on this parameter.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 06:12

'thebigfish' it is good that you use Google. Google can bring trash or treasure. Keep at it. :D
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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stobiewan

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 11:27

thebigfish wrote:Um Sorry for posting on program updates (seemed logical based on other postings there) but anyway. The Blog I first saw this was australianaviation.com.au by a Peter (Goon?) and then after putting the key words into google several other blogs came up and this statement was repeated.

Goon is a larger chunk of the APA network and has an incorrigibly biased take on F35. He has no access to classified or even commercially sensitive information.
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munny

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 12:18

If what he said about the F35 failing stealth is false


It's usually Kopp who makes the claims about F-35's stealth (radar stealth). He knows quite a lot and is by far the most intelligent of the partners....the "thinking" component of the APA "think tank". Unfortunately he constantly contradicts himself with his data and conclusions.

He loves making the claim that the F-35's side aspect RCS severely limits its survivability and that every other stealth aircraft (especially the F-22) is immensely better in this aspect.

As they always do, they ignore the fact that every other stealth aircraft except the flying wings have a terrible side RCS vs ground radars, including the F-22. They also lauded the VLO design of the chinese J-20 and still maintain its total RCS superiority over the F-35, yet from the front sector (the aspect that matters), the F-35 is much smaller with less clutter from stabilizers, canards, uses much more matured stealth materials and has the same (but smaller) intake design.

APA is basically a hobby venture for those two guys. They have no access to classified information on the aircraft's actual capabilities or those of possible adversaries. This is why they're usually just treated like children and ignored when they turn up to public hearings held by various governments. What's funny is that they then go and post in their resume that they were engaged by the governments to give advice :)

Something you can bank on, The F-35 will have an awesome RCS in a 60-70 degree arc around the nose. That gives it a significant advantage over older aircraft.
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stobiewan

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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 12:40

It's worth remembering that Kopp's background is in mobile phones, and that he and I think Goon, were pushing a proposal to relife the F111 and buy in F22 as their proposed solution - all the work was to be subcontracted out and they'd make money doing the project management.

The RAAF had no interest in the F22 as it didn't tick the boxes and less interest in flying F111's for another couple of decades so the idea never gained traction, but this is the source of much of the agitation against the F35. They work in fear and doubt plus biased use of simulations.
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Unread post21 Feb 2012, 15:54

munny wrote:
If what he said about the F35 failing stealth is false


It's usually Kopp who makes the claims about F-35's stealth (radar stealth). He knows quite a lot and is by far the most intelligent of the partners....the "thinking" component of the APA "think tank". Unfortunately he constantly contradicts himself with his data and conclusions.

He loves making the claim that the F-35's side aspect RCS severely limits its survivability and that every other stealth aircraft (especially the F-22) is immensely better in this aspect.

As they always do, they ignore the fact that every other stealth aircraft except the flying wings have a terrible side RCS vs ground radars, including the F-22.

Something you can bank on, The F-35 will have an awesome RCS in a 60-70 degree arc around the nose. That gives it a significant advantage over older aircraft.
The F35 will have an awesome RCS over a considerably large aspect, than just a 60 to 70 degree arc around its nose. The side RCS is obviously not as good, as the frontal RCS, but...both the F-22 and F-35 have all aspect VLO signature reduction. You'll still need to be close, to spot it from the side or rear, on radar(just not as close, as from the front).

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