F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
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Gums

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Unread post24 Jan 2012, 17:06

Salute!

The link by Spaz shows the "A" engaging the donout-raised cable.

http://www.esco.zodiacaerospace.com/

I agree that the donuts would likely be a bear to maintain on a boat, soooooo.

The cable I snatched on the overrun after skipping the BAK-9 150o feet from the end was likely a modified MA-1 or an E5. Dragged a coupla anchor chains and was smooth and it worked!

Baaahhhh wahhhh, I want my Tape Dragon pin!!!!! Sniff, sniff.

++++++++

The one I am trying to track down was used in Viet Nam by USMC Scooters up in I Corps. We also used the thing at NAS Barber's Point for our A-7D's on a deployment there in the mid 70's. Allowed landings about a minute and a half apart. As we had the same hook as the Navy birds, we could raise it and taxi clear as the cable was being retracted for the next "trap". The thing had a lot longer run out than the standard cables on a boat or even our BAK-9 and BAK-12 systems on normal USAF runways.

AvWeb has a current, short article about the "C" hook.

Gums sends...
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"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
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Unread post24 Jan 2012, 17:37

Attachments
USAFarrestorSystems.gif
169753-R1-E014.jpg
ChuLai66asSeenFromTower.jpg
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Unread post24 Jan 2012, 21:55

Some other interesting A-4 trivia. The designer stressed simplicity above all.

And the original design came in way under-weight to the requirement. Add to that, from the early model to the later models, the design had a around a 25 percent growth in empty weight.

Do you see those kinds of margins with the F-35 design?

I am also curious about a yoke hook design on the F-35C. What does that mean?
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Unread post24 Jan 2012, 22:19

elp says: "...I am also curious about a yoke hook design on the F-35C. What does that mean?" Here is my [cartoon] guess....

Also same elp curiousity unanswered (go ask the Goon whydoncha? - I guess he ain't a structural engineer) here: (scroll down)

U.S. Navy and U.K. Royal Navy F-35 unable to get aboard ship
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-16692.html

elp: "....An interesting question for structural engineers? Did they use a yoke configuration because they had to lower stress on an already minimal strength airframe or some other issues?..."
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Unread post24 Jan 2012, 23:01

spazsinbad wrote:elp says: "...I am also curious about a yoke hook design on the F-35C. What does that mean?" Here is my [cartoon] guess....

Also same elp curiousity unanswered (go ask the Goon whydoncha? - I guess he ain't a structural engineer) here: (scroll down)

U.S. Navy and U.K. Royal Navy F-35 unable to get aboard ship
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-16692.html

elp: "....An interesting question for structural engineers? Did they use a yoke configuration because they had to lower stress on an already minimal strength airframe or some other issues?..."


:lol: --- I was just curious since you are the one doing the hard sell. Interesting the other day, Mr. Burbage has stated he has the A-team on this fix. That is reassuring. :lol:
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Unread post24 Jan 2012, 23:40

elp, what hard sell is that? For example the A-4 was introduced by 'alloycowboy' I believe to illustrate a point about hooks. Sure I took it from there because - guess what - I have GigaBytes of info about the A4G in particular readily to hand. Youse can have it also because it is freely available as an online download PDF. See signature at bottom of my posts here.

If anyone is hard selling I would suggest that you elp would be that 'hard' seller as an anti F-35 salesperson. As for myself as I have repeated ad nauseam (don't quote me) on this site, I'm interested in the facts and would rather my opinions did not intrude - but it is addictive eh - if only for meself.

So to get to the point. I was surprised to discover that the planned redesign of the F-35C hook will closely resemble the existing emergency F-35A hook and (surprise again) the A-4 hook. Big deal - obviously the A-4 hook works well with a similar short mainwheel to hook point distance. So then there are many illustrations of use of said hooks with some suggesting the original F-35C hook resembled a 'Hornet' hook - variety unknown. How hard is that to understand?

Then for you to somehow suggest that the A-4 is a model of Naval Aircraft development compared to the F-35 is beyond my comprehension. All you have is sly innuendo such as: "...Mr. Burbage has stated he has the A-team on this fix. That is reassuring." And ooohhh I forgot the stuff about 'unable to land on a carrier' malarkey. As if.
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 01:11

I'm a structural engineer, so I'll try to answer that. There are a number of reasons to use a "yoked" hook on a carrier borne airplane. It reduces the lateral swing when the airplane rolls. If the fuselage has two lower keel beams rather than one, a yoked hook attaches more efficiently. The lower hook pivot point greatly reduces the the amount of "cable-slap" when the hook first picks up the cable and rapidly moves upward. Cable-slap can do great damage to nearby objects, like horizontal tails and aft fuselages. During rollout, the cable will be lower, preventing pitchup which could reduce stability.

My guess is the reason has nothing to do with structures, but is related to reduced cable-slap. The E-2 has a similar yoked hook and it also has a very low aft
fuselage, possibly prone to cable-slap problems.

In case you didn't realize it, elp, all airplanes have minimal strength structures. Less weight that way, doncha know? :roll:
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 01:49

Thanks for info johnwill. Dare I say SLDinfo has a good story (probably badly told) about hook issues with the venerable Vigilante (sometimes misspelt in the story) but anyway - to me at least - interesting. Amazing what Naval Aviators will up with put. :D

Tail Hook is More Than a Party Jan/22/12 by Ed Timperlake

http://www.sldinfo.com/tail-hook-is-more-than-a-party/

"...The RA-5 Vigalente was an extremely difficult aircraft to safely bring back to the ship; again it was a tail hook issue.

Once a tail hook even separated from the “Viggie” returning from a combat mission.

But every landing was a challenge requiring great skill.

The RA-5 had a high landing speed angle of attack and a tail hook design that if it slapped back into the airframe it could cause “Alpha” damage. To translate a bad approach and landing and the pilot might destroy the aircraft—“”Alpha Class Mishap.”

In those days it was known that the RA-5 Vigilante pilots were the most skilled aviators in landing aboard the boat.

In the highly competitive world of Naval Aviation, the RA-5 pilots took a design issue –the tail hook-and with great skill carried on.

However, the real lesson is that any flaw with the “hook” must be addressed so all “nuggets,” first tour aviators, can bring their aircraft safely. So finding and fixing a tail hook problem with the F-35C is a very good thing...."

As always best to read the story in full at URL above. [Emphasis in the story]
_____________________________

A-5 Vigilante ____(Rare Videos) Deck Landing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YR8QByIOKY
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 07:52

Another TaleHookTailTwist: Photo: Hornet catching the wires. On the Arctic Circle January 22, 2012
by David Cenciotti

http://theaviationist.com/2012/01/22/finnish-hornet/

"Published by Lt. Gen. Jarmo Lindberg, commander of the Finnish Air Force, on his Twitter timeline few days ago, the following picture (by Harri Koskinen) shows a F-18D Hornet routine arrested landing practice at Rovaniemi on the Arctic Circle.

The photograph is interesting because it shows an aircraft about to catch the wire on a land base and it is taken from a position that gives a clear view of the distance between the Main Landing Gear and the arrestor hook on the Hornet: 18.9 ft...."

http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/495314913.jpg
&
"MAAS overhaul at 380 AEW
Senior Airman Jason Senter, from the 380th Expeditionary Civil Engineer Squadron, cuts off unserviceable cable spacers on the mobile aircraft arresting system Aug. 27, 2011, during a two-week maintenance overhaul of the system at an air base in Southwest Asia. This maintenance is due every 10 years. The MAAS is an emergency braking system for tail-hook-equipped aircraft. It is used in emergency situations where a fighter aircraft needs assistance with coming to a stop after flight. This occasionally occurs due to mechanical failures beyond the pilot's abilities to correct prior to landing. (U.S. Air Force photo/Tech. Sgt. Patrick Mitchell)"

http://www.380aew.afcent.af.mil/shared/ ... 03-031.JPG
_____________

"A Marine assigned to the "Silver Eagles" of Marine Strike Fighter Attack Squadron One One Five (VMFA-115) conducts a preflight check on the tailhook on one of the squadron’s F/A-18A+ Hornets."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... detail.jpg
&
BIG PIC ZOOM from: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... detail.jpg
Attachments
495314913.jpg
110827-F-XT803-031.jpg
800px-Tail_hook_detail.jpg
1280px-Tail_hook_detailZOOM.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 25 Jan 2012, 09:15, edited 4 times in total.
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 08:28

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e2c09.jpg
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 08:42

AND something for 'johnwill': http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009 ... -111b.html

Grumman F-111B Sunday, October 4, 2009


"The misunderstood and much maligned Grumman F-111B has been of interest to me for many years....

...Only seven F-111Bs flew. There were three different configurations, not counting paint schemes and detail differences: the first three, the middle two, and the final two. The first five had the short nose and translating cowl inlet; the final two the long nose and a blow-in door inlet...."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_6VuJi5KBiQ/T ... lation.jpg
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F-111B 970-2 Tailhook Installation.jpg
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 08:52

Weird Hook HuH + ZOOM: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/pl ... hook-1.jpg

Air Force Fighters & Tailhooks
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0295.shtml

"...Many Air Force aircraft are also equipped with tailhooks. In addition to the F-15 and F-16, tailhooks can also be found on the F-104, F-105, F-111, F-117, and F-22...."

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/pl ... hook-2.jpg
&
Re-Oriented F-35A Emergency Hook graphic from:
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... k6bz1fii0A
Attachments
f16-tailhook-1.jpg
F-16hookZOOM.jpg
f16-tailhook-2.jpg
F-35AhookGraphicReOriented.gif
Last edited by spazsinbad on 25 Jan 2012, 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 18:50

Your resources and willingness to share them are much appreciated. What we called "Navy 5" (151974) was my close friend for about six months in 1968, during the land-based carrier trials at Pax River. It was a Grumman test, but GD supplied specialists in several areas. My area was landing gear, hook, and launch bar loads.

The F-16 hook is weird, but much of that blob on the end is a thick rubber bumper to help protect the aft fuselage from "hook slap". The hook body is a flat strap, curved to match the aft fuselage contour, with the hook point and bumper fitting into a well. The hook body looks wimpy, but has a breaking strength of at least 100,000 lb.
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 20:39

Always good to hear your explanations about the' trippple one' johnwill (when are you gunna write a book about your adventures?). All this 'wimpy USAF hook' stuff is very interesting to me. The F-35A hook had me baffled until the graphic found - then when the F-16 'almost arrest' photo found it all made sense. The strap must be very strong also? I guess the reason why the combo is used only once is that the strap is weakened? I'll add the F-35A hook graphic to the F-16 arrest pic entry.

Looks like the Vigi had a yoke hook arrangement also:

http://yellowairplane.com/pics/Viewers_ ... erDeck.jpg

US Navy RA-5C Vigilante Reconnaissance Fighter Jet.
on the deck of the navy aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk, CV-63.
This is the Baddest to the Bones jet we had on the ship. 1977-1978

http://yellowairplane.com/pics/CV63_RA5C.htm

"...I think it was on my first cruise when there was a tail hook failure in one of the planes operating in Viet Nam. All of the vigilantes were grounded until the tail hooks could be removed and X-rayed. We also had an incident on the flight deck one night when one of our planes had a nosewheel fork fail on landing. Pieces of the fork, wheel and tire were ingested by both engines. It was spectacular! Then there was the incident where a tail hook snubber failed which allowed the tail hook to strike the #742 frame in the fuselage...."
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Unread post25 Jan 2012, 21:48

Some speculation here, but initially the F-16 strap was not replaced after every use. In fact we did 94 arrestments in 1979 on FSD No. 2 at Edwards to develop the arrestment limits (weight, speed, offset) for the A and B models, all with the same hook. The hook point was replaced several times due to wear from runway abrasion. The point got so sharp it once sliced completely through the cable, so the top half was totally shredded. The speculation is that weight growth over the last 33 years has made it wise to replace the hook after every use. I was not aware they did that. I'm wondering if only the hook point is replaced.

The strap, although curved with no load, assumes a perfectly straight shape when loaded to 65,000 lb.
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