F-35s for Japan

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neptune

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Unread post27 Sep 2011, 19:50

Lockheed Martin submits F-35 bid for Japan

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... an-362591/

Lockheed Martin submits F-35 bid for Japan :)

Craig Hoyle London

Lockheed Martin and the US Air Force have responded to a Japanese request for proposals for a next-generation F-X fighter with a bid using the F-35 Lightning II.

..Lockheed is promoting the F-35 as representing "the pinnacle of fighter aircraft development".

"We are confident that F-35 delivers unmatched cost-effective capability for Japan's defence, now and well into the future," .... "We are committed to an enduring F-35 partnership with Japanese industry to deliver F-35's transformational fifth-generation capability for Japan's long-term national security."

To replace the Japan .. F-4 Phantoms, the F-X contest is advancing after Tokyo issued a request for proposals in mid-April. ...

.. MiliCAS database lists Japan..fleet of 90 F-4s,.. 14 reconnaissance.. :)
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spazsinbad

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Unread post28 Sep 2011, 21:54

Moves Closer to Buying a New Generation of Jet Fighters By CHESTER DAWSON 27 Sep 2011

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 11492.html

"TOKYO—Japan moved a step closer to buying a new generation of jet fighters Monday after it accepted bids by three of the world's biggest defense contractors for what is expected to be a deal worth several billion dollars.

In line with a Japanese government deadline, the country's Defense Ministry received bids from Boeing Co. for the company's F-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin Corp. for its F-35 Lightning II JSF and Eurofighter GmbH for its Typhoon fighter, a ministry spokesman said.

The bids were formally submitted to Japan by the U.S. government in the case of the F-18 and F-35,...

...Defense Minister Yasuo Ichikawa has said he expects a final decision by December as part of the government's budgetary discussions for fiscal 2012...."
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post28 Sep 2011, 22:02

So no fly-off.. this will be a "paper" decision.

I have an idea that even Geogen will approve of. We can "lease" some F-35s (in addition to our scheduled build) to Japan for 5 years. At the end of that time if Japan does not want them, we can use them in the USAF :)
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neptune

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Unread post28 Sep 2011, 22:42

spazsinbad wrote:[b]Moves Closer to Buying a New Generation of Jet Fighters...final decision by December as part of the government's budgetary discussions for fiscal 2012...."


The politics of this should be interesting with China "muscling-in on the Japanese airspace and at sea and perhaps even one of the remote Japanese islands?, will the US and Australia allow Japan to get operational JSFs, early?? :?:

Even more interesting would this open the door for the Japanese neighbors; South Korea and Taiwan's need for 5th Gen. fighters.
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southernphantom

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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 00:15

Japan doesn't need F-35s!!!! The F-4 can own F-35s 14 at a time!!!!

Yeah, I wish. I do, however, see a bit of confusion selling Joint STRIKE Fighters to the SELF-DEFENSE force. Unless they're planning something similar to Golden Eagles/Raptors supporting the Lightnings.

Either way, assuming that Japan doesn't F-2-ize the F-35, this deal would result in a great interoperability capability with PACAF assets in Japan and Korea. It would be conceivable to totally integrate multinational maintenance with a full depot shared between the USAF, JASDF, RoKAF, and potentially RoCAF.
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stereospace

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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 02:39

southernphantom wrote:I do, however, see a bit of confusion selling Joint STRIKE Fighters to the SELF-DEFENSE force.

Hey, I thought the Best Defense was a Great Offense? And Bill Sweetman finds the F-35 offensive, so we're all the same page, eh? :cheers:
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arkadyrenko

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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 04:34

As Japan needs the replacements soonish, i.e. IOC by 2017, as I believe, I doubt the F-35 will win this one.

Though, Japan will probably become the second country to buy the F-35B.... That I believe is all but certain.
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geogen

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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 07:03

One might be interested to hear more details on this official bid. The latest info implied that deliveries would begin in 2016? So an FY14 order? A pre-mature SDD bird being bid on? That is some serious respect.

Anyway, sorry to be such a critic but c'mon... some legit questions to be pondered: Will the bid include the same LRIP PUC cost as estimated for USAF F-35A buys in FY14? Or will they be cheaper buys, e.g., based on the 'expected' FRP average unit cost... the difference in price to be taken out of the Program budget somewhere else? Who would be responsible to cover the 'fixed' cost overruns? Split between the US + LM? Or Tokyo and LM?

God speed and hope they select the most appropriate airframe and get the most reliable bang for buck in the end. :salute:
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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 07:26

Since the entire 42 would be purchased at the same time (one would think) then it would be a de facto MYB. As such there may be language in it to share overruns, or not.

My thought, and you should like this Geo, is to offer a short-term lease covering the first few years of F-35s. Since they need to have stateside trainers anyways, the 2016/17 jets would likely be at Eglin anyways. At the end of the those years the Japanese have the option to back out of the contract (with no penalty) if the F-35 "does not live up to the hype". To keep everyone honest, the lease contract should be based on a series of milestones that need to be achieved (SDD completion, integration of certain weapons, performance benchmarks, etc). If they decide to continue, the contract turns into a standard "lease to own" deal and the rest of the F-35s are delivered. If they back out, their F-35s just get handed over to the USAF so no loss there.

With this plan all risk for the Japanese is mitigated and LM can still secure it's first true FMS deal.
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duplex

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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 07:44

I am afraid Japan has lost faith in F-35, can't blame them..
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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 08:14

Spud - I must say you are the first one to 'officially' endorse my LRIP F-35 Lease proposal as a means to both mitigate risk and actually make initial acquisitions affordable to the early customer. And as you suggested, it would probably best ensure steady Procurement orders are placed when most needed - at the front-end. I've personally assessed this concept to be a no-brainer for all sides involved; as early lot orders could then be more confidently placed and become either affordable stop gaps to fill rapidly growing gaps, or traded in for mature block IV's as an option later on too. It would seem like the most feasible LRIP procurement strategy, especially today given the astronomical unit costs. We'll have to wait and see.. :thumb:
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shep1978

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Unread post29 Sep 2011, 17:01

duplex wrote:I am afraid Japan has lost faith in F-35, can't blame them..


Anything to back that claim up or is it just wishful thinking? Just that if they'd lost faith in the F-35 I can't see why they've invited LM to submit a bid...
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Unread post07 Oct 2011, 03:18

Lockheed To Offer F-35 Work To Japan Firms Oct 6, 2011 By Tim Kelly/Reuters TOKYO

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... e=Lockheed To Offer F-35 Work To Japan Firms

U.S. aerospace and defense contractor Lockheed Martin said on Thursday it will offer final assembly of the F-35 fighter to Japanese firms in a bid for a defense contract from Tokyo.

Lockheed, seeking to bolster its chances of winning a bid to supply warplanes worth as much as $8 billion to Japan, said it will also offer manufacture of major components, maintenance work and engine assembly of the F-35 to Japanese firms.

The F-35 “has taken our industry and partners to a new level,” John Balderston, the campaign director for Lockheed’s bid, told reporters at a Tokyo hotel where the company was displaying a mockup of the plane.

“It will put Japanese aerospace into the lead,”....

..."The Pentagon said on Wednesday it expects to finish a “should cost” estimate for the next batch of F-35s this month...."
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batu731

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Unread post07 Oct 2011, 04:02

Its likely that Japan gets the license to make F-35 in their own plant.
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Unread post07 Oct 2011, 06:17

Aint gonna happen. Japan learned their lesson from the F-2. If they setup a complete production line for only 42 airframes, they will be over $300 million each by the time all the costs are accounted for. Even the Boeing deal does not include full production, but approx 70% (not known what this includes).
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