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Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2019, 15:58
by steve2267
An acquaintance shared some photos he took of the F-35 in a four ship with an F-16, F-15, and F-22. A NASA F-18 is in one photo -- it was used as a photo ship. I was struck by just how much smaller the F-35 is compared to the Eagle and Raptor. Even though I know the F-35 is NOT an F-22... at first glance of an F-35 next to an F-22, my immediate reaction is that the F-35 is much further distant than the F-22. I've seen the line drawings & illustrations comparing the F-35 to various aircraft from a front and dorsal perspective, but seeing it in a photo is different for some reason.

Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor - approach.png


Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor - overhead.png


Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor - overhead2.png


Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor - departing.png


The F-35 will never have the visual signature of the F-16 (at least when it is clean). The Viper is just plain tiny in comparison, from a visual perspective from front or rear.

Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor - departing(dots).png

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2019, 20:16
by spazsinbad
Thanks for comparo…. (rotated 36 degrees etc.)

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2019, 21:27
by steve2267
I got the idea to create this thread from a post by marsavian in the F-35 and Airshows thread. That link will jump you into the appropriate place (p.74) of that long thread.

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2019, 21:49
by spazsinbad
Ah you dun dood it. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24622&p=412842&hilit=visual#p412842 Here are examples of comparos.

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 02:02
by steve2267
I fought the Gimp... and, well... Gimp lost. But what a pain in the **** it was. NOT intuitive Gimp is.

I didn't bother throwing the images into AutoCAD and really precisely lining things up... but I did manage the following:

F-16, F-35, F-15, F-22 lineup (1024).png

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 11:25
by shania
F-35 size.jpg

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 14:36
by steve2267
Well, nutz... why didn't I think of that?

Nicely done! :cheers:

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 14:42
by basher54321
Is there a slight altitude difference there?

Probably not far off though I suppose here is one I did based on dimensions a while back.

F-16C.jpg
F16-F35

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 14:51
by steve2267
basher54321 wrote:Is there a slight altitude difference there?

Probably not far off though I suppose here is one I did based on dimensions a while back.

F-16C.jpg


Basher, it's certainly possible, but I don't know? IMO, any altitude difference is slight. The image manipulation was based on photo #2 in the five frame sequence shown above in this thread. Based on the skybackdrop between the Eagle's two air intakes and fuselage, it appears the fourship flew almost directly above the photographer. Image #5 shows the aircraft as they are receding in the distance,and would appear to show they are at the same altitude for all practical purposes.

I applied no scaling to individual airfame images.

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 14:57
by steve2267
Basher, in your comparison image above, how did you line up the two images? Did you overlay the engine nozzle exhaust plane?

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 15:17
by basher54321
No Steve - dimensions converted to pixels and scaled individually - you can move the images wherever you like after that.

You have to be careful with dimensions and check whether they include pitot tube, wingtip missiles etc.

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 15:19
by mixelflick
steve2267 wrote:I fought the Gimp... and, well... Gimp lost. But what a pain in the **** it was. NOT intuitive Gimp is.

I didn't bother throwing the images into AutoCAD and really precisely lining things up... but I did manage the following:

F-16, F-35, F-15, F-22 lineup (1024).png


I am struck most by wing area. The jump from F-16 to F-35, and F-15 to F-22. Add to that lift contributed to by the body of the F-35 and 22 and I guess you can see why each is so superior to it's teen counterpart. We know how much lift is generated by the F-15's fuselage, given that Israeli Eagle that landed - without one wing! The F-22's smooth, blended underside is a sight to behold, and if anything has even greater fuselage lift.

It's also mind boggling how much more fuel each carries vs. its predecessor.

What does the Eagle carry, 13,850lbs? 18,000lbs in the Raptor. And especially the F-35... F-16 carries 7,000lbs, and the F-35A a whopping 18,070!!! Throw in the fact they're clean when combat configured, and I guess that seals it - no comparison, much better legs vs. the teen series.

Fantastic pieces of engineering. Given all of that, it certainly makes the SU-57's podded engines/tunnel arrangement rather archaic. Not sure about the J-20, but to my eye it looks like they bolted the wings on a fuselage that doesn't fit. Sort of a mish mash of two different planes...

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 15:54
by steve2267
basher54321 wrote:No Steve - dimensions converted to pixels and scaled individually - you can move the images wherever you like after that.

You have to be careful with dimensions and check whether they include pitot tube, wingtip missiles etc.


Does the oft-quoted length figure of the F-16 include the nose pitot tube? That is, is the 49.5' length from the tip of the pitot tube to the end of the vertical fin?

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 16:02
by quicksilver
When one stands near an F-35, it 'feels' much larger that its planform might suggest (in comparison to the Viper). Two principle reasons for this are, 1) as discussed, the F-35 has lotsa fuselage volume; and, 2) when all that volume is further from the ground (i.e. you have more ground clearance in order to open the bays and have some degree of ease in loading them) it feels like a very large aircraft. Next to a Viper (even a clasic Hornet) those jets 'feel' like greyhounds in comparison.

Compare some images of pilots or plane captains preflighting an F-35 vs whatever and notice how much clearance there is above their head and the bottom of the wing.

Here's a for example for F-35 -- https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 5493873458

Re: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 16:02
by basher54321
Yes that includes the pitot tube so from the tip.