Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2016, 22:22
by spazsinbad
NAVAIR : 24 Feb 2016 "Photo of the day: Cmdr. Tony "Brick" Wilson takes aircraft CF-05, an F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, into a 45-degree dive during an external GBU-12 weapons separation test Feb. 18. (U.S. Navy photo) https://www.facebook.com/NAVAIR/photos/ ... =3&theater & https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 3056_o.jpg

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2016, 22:47
by sferrin
"ZOMG! F-35 can't hit anything unless it dives like a WWII dive bomber!" - Solomon.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2016, 23:23
by XanderCrews
sferrin wrote:"ZOMG! F-35 can't hit anything unless it dives like a WWII dive bomber!" - Solomon.


Its a modern Stuka!!! unlike the A-10 which is much better!! :wink:

Cool pic Spaz, thanks for sharing

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2016, 23:38
by sferrin
And just because I don't know where else to put it:



Go Hill!!! :drool:

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2016, 23:57
by spazsinbad
HILL: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=25663

UNITS: Hill AFB, Rude Rams of the 34th Fighter Squadron

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 02:14
by neptune
sferrin wrote:And just because I don't know where else to put it:



Go Hill!!! :drool:


...standing question; all of these filmed with radar (training??) reflectors... US airspace requirements??...hmm...

I expect we will be waiting till Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 (VMFA-121) deploys without reflectors??

:)

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 04:36
by KamenRiderBlade
For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 09:21
by charlielima223
sferrin wrote:"ZOMG! F-35 can't hit anything unless it dives like a WWII dive bomber!" - Solomon.


or how about this...

"F-35 cannot defeat armored units unless it imparts more kinetic energy to bombs by going into a dive." - David Axe and Dave Majumdar

:doh:

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 13:11
by sferrin
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


I noticed that too. Maybe it's just the desire not to impose another supply chain that requires batteries, chargers, maintenance for the tools, etc. on the system.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 14:28
by optimist
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?

They are saving selling then till the MLU. At the moment they are quite happy selling the old stock of $5,000 speed handle wrenches

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 14:35
by sprstdlyscottsmn
sferrin wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


I noticed that too. Maybe it's just the desire not to impose another supply chain that requires batteries, chargers, maintenance for the tools, etc. on the system.

Bingo. KISS principle.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 15:54
by sferrin
optimist wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?

They are saving selling then till the MLU. At the moment they are quite happy selling the old stock of $5,000 speed handle wrenches


Do you have any factual evidence that those "wrenches" cost $5000 each?

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 16:00
by XanderCrews
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


They don't want to strip out the screws.


and the military doesn't pay hourly.

My dad was in for 20 years, power tools aren't allowed. In the civilian world it's much more common

Ratcheting screw drives are the most common though. Remember the screws are made of aluminum, it's not hard to egg em out

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 16:20
by spazsinbad
Clip for Screws Loose - every which way but....

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 19:12
by KamenRiderBlade
XanderCrews wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


They don't want to strip out the screws.


and the military doesn't pay hourly.

My dad was in for 20 years, power tools aren't allowed. In the civilian world it's much more common

Ratcheting screw drives are the most common though. Remember the screws are made of aluminum, it's not hard to egg em out

I didn't know power tools aren't allowed.

Is there a reason as to why that is?

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 19:42
by SpudmanWP
imagine how hard it would be to re-tap the threads in a VLO airframe?

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 20:02
by lamoey
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


They don't want to strip out the screws.


and the military doesn't pay hourly.

My dad was in for 20 years, power tools aren't allowed. In the civilian world it's much more common

Ratcheting screw drives are the most common though. Remember the screws are made of aluminum, it's not hard to egg em out

I didn't know power tools aren't allowed.

Is there a reason as to why that is?


It depends on the type of screw used. In the picture it looks like a Torq screw, no power tool is allowed. I personally stripped a few and had to call the metal shop to come and get the screws out and replace them. Caused me embarrassment and humiliation to no end every time. If it is a Allen (hex) screw, then it may be allowed, if approved tools are available. We had small pneumatic power tools we could use, if in a well equipped hangar, on the Allen (hex) screws. Never any electrical tools though. I'm not sure if any of this have changed in recent years though. I don't know how I would manage around the house without my small DeWALT DCF610 these days. Panels opened often mostly had Allen screws, but all the ones on the wings, that I ever had to open, had Torq screws that stripped too easily to use the pneumatic screw driver, and we always use the one seen in the pictures above.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 20:24
by archeman
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


Speaking only for USAF:

Back in the day, there were no "Spark Emitting" motor driven screwguns of any kind allowed to be used on or in the immediate vicinity of a fueled aircraft. Even flashlights had to be approved DOD originated and bring-it-from-home flashlights were not allowed. Sometimes the Airframe maintenance teams would bring out electric drills but there were always special procedures required with that step, including an extra standby guy with an additional halon rig.

Most DC motor drill/ratchet designs that you would pick up at the hardware store are very very sparky inside the vented case, due to the low cost of DC sprung-brush and copper commutator designs. It is possible to design a sparkless DC motor for this purpose, but they are not as common and more expensive than the over the counter screwguns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCEiOnuODac

Sometimes simple is better, you just have to pay attention not to over-torque.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 21:19
by sferrin
SpudmanWP wrote:imagine how hard it would be to re-tap the threads in a VLO airframe?


Pop the insert out of the nutplate and throw a new one in. (Unless they're using sealed nutplates.)

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2016, 22:33
by optimist
sferrin wrote:
optimist wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?

They are saving selling then till the MLU. At the moment they are quite happy selling the old stock of $5,000 speed handle wrenches


Do you have any factual evidence that those "wrenches" cost $5000 each?


They always cost 1,000 times more than a sidchrome :devil:

( It was a sarc, but I should have put a smiley up before, to show it)

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 26 Feb 2016, 02:52
by KamenRiderBlade
archeman wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:For those maintainers who have to screw in all those screws onto panels, are there not torque over limiting power screw drivers that can screw them in faster then by hand?


Speaking only for USAF:

Back in the day, there were no "Spark Emitting" motor driven screwguns of any kind allowed to be used on or in the immediate vicinity of a fueled aircraft. Even flashlights had to be approved DOD originated and bring-it-from-home flashlights were not allowed. Sometimes the Airframe maintenance teams would bring out electric drills but there were always special procedures required with that step, including an extra standby guy with an additional halon rig.

Most DC motor drill/ratchet designs that you would pick up at the hardware store are very very sparky inside the vented case, due to the low cost of DC sprung-brush and copper commutator designs. It is possible to design a sparkless DC motor for this purpose, but they are not as common and more expensive than the over the counter screwguns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCEiOnuODac

Sometimes simple is better, you just have to pay attention not to over-torque.


Fear of sparks + flammable materials, that makes ALOT more sense

Especially given many power tools are low quality.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 26 Feb 2016, 04:54
by sferrin
optimist wrote:( It was a sarc, but I should have put a smiley up before, to show it)


You never know. You hear about a $6000 drill but then they don't tell you it's not a $20 Whackin' Pecker from Home Depot but one of these:

Image

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2017, 16:27
by grab6303
In addition to the reasons listed above...F-35 nutplates are glued in (no rivets). If you pop one you just lost 4 hours to cure time. Speedhandles make it much easier to apply the correct amount of force to pull the screw without popping the nutplate. This is a learning curve for our folks transitioning from legacy platforms. Back when I was a Viper guy I prided myself on being one of those guys that could get any screw without calling the metals folks for a drill. I was able to use brute force via speedhandle, impact, air impact, hammer and bit (my favorite :), etc. You just can't do that stuff on the Lightning II. Also, The screw heads are pretty shallow and easy to strip if you aren't careful. The old hex head bits were great for drills because of depth, we don't have that luxury.

In the end this seems like a tremendous pain in the a$$ to every new F-35 maintainer (I was one of them a long time ago and felt the same pain). In time they learn the technique and are just as quick at pulling panels as they were in legacy. In my experience that little bit of extra care has gone a long way to preserving the screws for more panel pulls when compared to legacy (F-16 ventral panels come to mind).

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 00:40
by sferrin
grab6303 wrote:In addition to the reasons listed above...F-35 nutplates are glued in (no rivets). If you pop one you just lost 4 hours to cure time.


Wait 'til you get to shave off the backside of a metal grommet because it protrudes too far. Four or five hundred times.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 17:37
by yeswepromise
sferrin wrote:
grab6303 wrote:In addition to the reasons listed above...F-35 nutplates are glued in (no rivets). If you pop one you just lost 4 hours to cure time.


Wait 'til you get to shave off the backside of a metal grommet because it protrudes too far. Four or five hundred times.

I've been wondering how close they set the fasteners in the field...
When I saw A lot of the fasteners on AF-04 up close... wow. Granted, its at the end of its SDD life, but geewhiz. They were rough

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 26 Feb 2017, 11:53
by kimjongnumbaun
KamenRiderBlade wrote:I didn't know power tools aren't allowed.

Is there a reason as to why that is?


I've never seen a power tool on the maintenance line for this purpose. Granted, I only had 3 years in that stint as a commander of a phase company. But the screws are torque limited so you can't use power tools.

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 26 Feb 2017, 15:02
by zero-one
1 of the basement dweller comments on that pic was

Oh Ow.. can't pull up :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 26 Feb 2017, 19:54
by linkomart
:offtopic:
when I see that picture, and you say basemet dweller.... Why do I think of this ...?

Re: Dive Dive Dive

Unread postPosted: 18 Apr 2017, 16:05
by mixelflick
spazsinbad wrote:
NAVAIR : 24 Feb 2016 "Photo of the day: Cmdr. Tony "Brick" Wilson takes aircraft CF-05, an F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, into a 45-degree dive during an external GBU-12 weapons separation test Feb. 18. (U.S. Navy photo) https://www.facebook.com/NAVAIR/photos/ ... =3&theater & https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 3056_o.jpg


Damn. She looks downright sleek there... :mrgreen: