F-22s and F-35s Are Struggling to Talk to Each Other & USAF

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 02 Feb 2018, 16:37

Wouldn't it be good enough for the legacy guys to receive-only MADL while send-receive Link16? Have the 22 and 35 receive-only Link16 while send-receive MADL? That way communication is two way and the LO assets stay LO?

neptune · by **neptune** » 02 Feb 2018, 20:13

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Wouldn't it be good enough for the legacy guys to receive-only MADL while send-receive Link16? Have the 22 and 35 receive-only Link16 while send-receive MADL? That way communication is two way and the LO assets stay LO?

Yes,
Legacy airframes were not designed to LoS MADL and existing omni comm Link16 is adequate for them but.....when working "close" with stealth a/c it requires MADL. Once you have a "working" antenna design for the legacy a/c the MADL T/R module is "off the shelf".

Yes,
My issue is compromising a $100M/ 200M/ 2,000M a/c with an omni comm Link16 transmission when the stealth comm MADL can be converted externally and remotely by a legacy flying comm node.

Ex; two comm pods are installed (for the mission) on two a/c (one per) in the legacy strike package and fly a "comm" (LoS) position prior to and post strike.

Legacy a/c are not going to "hide" using MADL but stealth a/c are not going to "hide" using Link16.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 02 Feb 2018, 22:25

The F-35 is supposed to share the wealth across multi-domains where Link16 is well entrenched and continues to proliferate so going with BACN, Talon Hate or something similar is just practical.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 03 Feb 2018, 06:27

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Wouldn't it be good enough for the legacy guys to receive-only MADL while send-receive Link16? Have the 22 and 35 receive-only Link16 while send-receive MADL? That way communication is two way and the LO assets stay LO?

Since MADL is highly directional, if the legacy MADL a/c are receive only, how are the F-35's going to know the legacy a/c position precisely enough to enable a lock for transmission purposes?

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 03 Feb 2018, 08:21

The 4th gen plane can transmit its location (via encrypted Link-16) so the F-35 will know where to answer to. It's the same what that the F-35 maintains track of fellow F-35s (but by using MADL only).

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 03 Feb 2018, 21:05

Twasn't clear to me if a broadcast location would be "precise enough" to enable "highly directional" MADL to transmit to the 4th gen. Also wasn't clear to me if F-35's in a fourship must establish some sort of mutual lockup via MADL for the high bandwidth transmissions.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 03 Feb 2018, 23:56

The transmitting Link-16 signal will have the source GPS location embedded in it. There is no need to trace the signal back to its source.

As far as MADL goes, I'm sure it can do something similar if it loses track of all of it's LAN members (up to 25).

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 04 Feb 2018, 01:02

Except the F-35s will know where everything is with the total avionics suite and data sharing between F-35s.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 04 Feb 2018, 01:41

On another thread discussing MADL, IIRC there was an indication that it uses some form daisy chain topology. This should 'simplify' the operation and management of a dynamic network.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 04 Feb 2018, 02:25

Yup, it's a daisy chain of 25 devices.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 05 Apr 2018, 03:56

No voice?

http://www.businessinsider.com/f-22-f-3 ... ina-2018-4

"If I wanna talk to you using words, the F-22 doesn't transmit voice into the [F-35's] network," nor can it send targeting information, Berke said.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 05 Apr 2018, 04:05

MADL also does voice which is what I think he is talking about.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 16 Jun 2018, 01:26

ANALYSIS: Does Skunk Works hiring binge indicate secret new programme?
15 Jun 2018 Stephen Trimble

"...During a tour of the Skunk Works Integration Facility and Test Laboratory on 14 June, Clark demonstrated how such an architecture could work. Using a surrogate simulator for a fighter cockpit, the “pilot” defined an area on a map, then pressed an “automatic target recognition” button on the cockpit display. The command cued a new, state-of-the-art processor to query the fighter’s sensor data and automatically recognise several targets within that area. The same architecture also has applications that can allow different aircraft types to share data with each other....

...the System of Systems Integration Test, and Experimentation (SOSITE), was funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

It’s no longer just an experiment. The USAF also has approved a plan to integrate Lockheed’s architecture into the F-22 fleet as part of the Tactical Mandates (TACMAN) and Tactical Link (TACLINK) upgrade programmes. For the first time, the USAF’s front-line fighter will be able to use machine-learning algorithms to process the volumes of data collected by the F-22’s powerful sensors. A version of the same architecture also is being integrated with the F-35 as part of the Technical Refresh 3 programme.

Clark offers the OMS as an example of the Skunk Works’ unique methods in operation. By relying on available technology and a series of flight demonstrations, the Skunk Works has the tools to push new capabilities into combat faster than others, he says...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ec-449492/