MADL vs other datalinks

armedupdate · by **armedupdate** » 24 Jul 2016, 05:35

How does MADL compare to other datalinks such as IFDL and Link-16? I know it's stealthier, faster and harder to jam, but by how much? Can systems like Link-16 and IFDL hop frequencies to be stealthy, and transfer tactical info instantaneously?

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 24 Jul 2016, 06:16

Here is a whole bunch of stuff 'bout MADL: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=26630&p=280978&hilit=MADL#p280978
&
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=23840&p=251289&hilit=MADL#p251289

garrya · by **garrya** » 11 Mar 2019, 06:39

Where is this from?

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 11 Mar 2019, 07:17

Millimeter Wave Digital Arrays (MIDAS)
Dr. Timothy M. Hancock, MTO Program Manager
January 26, 2018
Page 5
https://www.darpa.mil/attachments/MIDAS ... Day_v3.pdf

aussiebloke · by **aussiebloke** » 11 Mar 2019, 14:24

If you are interested in the range of MADL versus the range of Link 16 there is an interesting discussion here:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=23563 [pages 2-4 particularly]

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 11 Mar 2019, 15:48

Transmitters are usually thermally limited and manage their output limitations via dynamically varying gain as needed. and why use more gain than necessary over shorter distances? Which then allows higher gain burst output for longer distance if required, just not continuously. The larger ESM antenna and its gain sensitivity may be able to act as the receiver if the MADL panel's reception gain is a limitation with increasing distance. So I don't see why MADL couldn't do the same thing to dynamically extend burst transmission ranges, if/when necessary (without even resorting to APG-81).

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 11 Mar 2019, 18:36

This isn't strictly about range or gain; a single, narrow-beam MADL array needs more time to interrogate
a larger volume of space. A multi-beam array could dramatically reduce that time and permit
simultaneous transmit/receive to two or more network members that are within the
beam volume of a single array. The alternative is to time-multiplex or daisy chain
which impacts latency and throughput.

It's a revival of the omnidirectional MADL that NG/Harris proposed a few years ago.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 11 Mar 2019, 20:46

MADL on the F-35 will typically only be communicating with 2 other F-35s at the same time. Those 2 being in the same arch and serviced by the same MADL antenna is not likely but would be easily doable.

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 11 Mar 2019, 21:23

SpudmanWP wrote:MADL on the F-35 will typically only be communicating with 2 other F-35s at the same time. Those 2 being in the same arch and serviced by the same MADL antenna is not likely but would be easily doable.

That's true for the typical chain topology but for a mesh topology, which it needs to be stressed is
independent of the MMW array technology as it can be a pure software implementation, it's more likely.

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 17 Sep 2020, 23:59

Gentlemen, I give you Super MADL?

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is awarded a $70,847,707 modification (P00023) to previously awarded cost-plus-incentive-fee contract N00019-19-C-0010. This modification provides requirements decomposition through system functional review for the F-35 Super Multi-Function Aircraft Data Link Band 5 receiver warning capability in support of the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and non-Department of Defense (DOD) participants.

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/2352082

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 18 Sep 2020, 01:28

What a word salad that is indeed. :mrgreen:

'decomposition'? 'F-35 Super Multi-Function Aircraft Data Link Band 5 receiver warning? capability'.

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 18 Sep 2020, 01:40

spazsinbad wrote::devil: What a word salad that is indeed. 'decomposition'? 'F-35 Super Multi-Function Aircraft Data Link Band 5 receiver warning? capability'.

I think they are upgrading MADL to handle the Band 5 (ku-band and above) RWR role.

Dragon029 · by **Dragon029** » 18 Sep 2020, 01:47

DARPA has been talking about moving data links to new, wide-band, digital beam-forming, multi-beam data links as a successor to MADL ("MIDAS" being a proposed data link); it's possible that MADL is getting a hardware upgrade in the future to embrace some of those technologies (you generally wouldn't affix a "Super" prefix to something just getting a software upgrade too).

Whether it's new hardware or just a software upgrade however, the contact in layman terms is a review into whether a design (typically one yet to enter EMD) is going to meet baseline requirements (ie if this Band 5 receiver warning capability will work adequately via whatever they're doing with MADL).

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 18 Sep 2020, 10:17

Here is a really good document about legacy data links like Link-16 and Link-22 :
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a417899.pdf

It has a lot of information about how those different data links work and how they differ from each other.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 18 Sep 2020, 10:57

Thanks for this. An OCR version is attached below Tactical Data Link Systems ADF DSTO Aug 2003 a417899 OCR.pdf