Marines F-35 reset

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wrightwing

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Unread post20 Mar 2020, 04:49

optimist wrote:Since when does the SM-6 replace the current harpoon 1500lb warhead missiles? I think someone at avwk has the wrong end of the stick.

Harpoons don't have a 1,500lb warhead. That's how much the entire missile + booster weighs.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Mar 2020, 19:17

The Corps is axing all of its tank battalions and cutting grunt units
23 Mar 2020 Shawn Snow

"...As part of Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. David Berger’s plan to redesign the force to confront China and other peer adversaries by 2030, the Marines are axing all three of its tank battalions, and chucking out all law enforcement battalions and bridging companies, according to a news release from Marine Corps Combat Development Command.

The Corps is also cutting the number of grunt battalions from 24 to 21, artillery cannon batteries from 21 to five and amphibious vehicle companies from six to four, according to the release. Aviation is taking a hit too, the Marines plan to cut back on MV-22 Osprey, attack and heavy lift squadrons.

The Marines also plan to reduce the number of primary authorized F-35B and F-35C fifth generation stealth fighters per squadron from 16 to 10, according to MCCDC.

The Corps says overall, it expects a reduction of 12,000 personnel across the force over the next 10 years...."

Source: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/y ... unt-units/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Mar 2020, 22:50

spazsinbad wrote:
The Corps is axing all of its tank battalions and cutting grunt units
23 Mar 2020 Shawn Snow

"...As part of Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. David Berger’s plan to redesign the force to confront China and other peer adversaries by 2030, the Marines are axing all three of its tank battalions, and chucking out all law enforcement battalions and bridging companies, according to a news release from Marine Corps Combat Development Command.

The Corps is also cutting the number of grunt battalions from 24 to 21, artillery cannon batteries from 21 to five and amphibious vehicle companies from six to four, according to the release. Aviation is taking a hit too, the Marines plan to cut back on MV-22 Osprey, attack and heavy lift squadrons.

The Marines also plan to reduce the number of primary authorized F-35B and F-35C fifth generation stealth fighters per squadron from 16 to 10, according to MCCDC.

The Corps says overall, it expects a reduction of 12,000 personnel across the force over the next 10 years...."

Source: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/y ... unt-units/


A month ago I would consider this unlikely. Yet, now with the worldwide coronavirus crisis. Anything is possible.... :?
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weasel1962

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 01:32

In the FY 2021 budget, the F-35B program total was cut to 324 (cut by 29) whilst the F-35C program total was boosted to 369 (added 29). That suggests maybe 4 sqns (all B sqns from FY 22) will be at 10 B instead of 16 B whilst keeping the same number of B sqns. That could mean adding ~2 more C sqns (likely could be USMC). Could be thinking Japan deployment, instead of carrier.

P.s. There are no 16C sqn in previous USMC aviation plans so can't cut those.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 04:40

weasel1962 wrote:In the FY 2021 budget, the F-35B program total was cut to 324 (cut by 29) whilst the F-35C program total was boosted to 369 (added 29). That suggests maybe 4 sqns (all B sqns from FY 22) will be at 10 B instead of 16 B whilst keeping the same number of B sqns. That could mean adding ~2 more C sqns (likely could be USMC). Could be thinking Japan deployment, instead of carrier.

P.s. There are no 16C sqn in previous USMC aviation plans so can't cut those.



Sure sounds like they're taking the extra aircraft from the larger F-35B Squadrons (16 vs 10) and buying F-35C's instead....Which, sounds like a good plan to me. Yet, I would prefer to see 12 aircraft squadrons for both types instead of "10". :(
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XanderCrews

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 06:58

Corsair1963 wrote:
A month ago I would consider this unlikely. Yet, now with the worldwide coronavirus crisis. Anything is possible.... :?


This has been in the works for months. Some would even say years the Marine Corps quit buying tube artillery a while ago and started making sure HIMARS could mate with F-35s

the big problem, and one should actually be thanking Trump for this (and I don't normally get political like this, but the obama administration utterly failed to extract us from "forever war" as was promised) , is the US Military actually gets to stop getting deeper and deeper into "forever war" and may actually even leave a few. The USMC for all its machinations and grand ideas, has been basically stuck because everytime we try to tell Tommy Taliban we are done with this and are ready for the big 21st century high tech war we get pulled right back into iraqistan. The Marine Corps has been telling us for nearly 10 years we are "the peacetime corps" but darned if the enemy never reads that memo. Shedding 12,000 people brings us below pre-GWOT levels. I think losing the tanks is premature for just that reason. What happens when you throw a war and china never comes, but theres still plenty of mid level people or even nobodies that can make your life miserable to the point you wouldn't mind a tank or two? Trump has done admirably at not getting sucked in deeper, and believe me he is under tremendous pressure to do so. I don't give him credit unnecessarily or lightly. But Droney McPeaceprize blew this in ways people still don't comprehend. To the point where Trump literally doing nothing to make it worse is a MASSIVE improvement. its very much the "in a hole? stop digging" concept that so many "Seasoned" and "smart" politicians are failing to grasp.

Its all about China and thats great, but we in the same way we have managed to fight so many nations other than Russia since 1945, the corps should not be too target fixated.

In the FY 2021 budget, the F-35B program total was cut to 324 (cut by 29) whilst the F-35C program total was boosted to 369 (added 29). That suggests maybe 4 sqns (all B sqns from FY 22) will be at 10 B instead of 16 B whilst keeping the same number of B sqns. That could mean adding ~2 more C sqns (likely could be USMC). Could be thinking Japan deployment, instead of carrier.



so 29 aircraft shift??


"The proposed reductions are meant to make the Corps lighter and more nimble to fight China in a 21st century version of the Pacific island hopping campaign during World War II," Berger said in an interview with Gordon.


LOL Good thing those wacky Marines aren't stuck in those past dogmas and unable to kill that sacred cow amiright? there you go, He wants to re-fight World War II :mrgreen:


The biggest sacred cows that Berger has murdered is insisting the Marines have to go along with putting women in combat roles, expanding maternity leave for same s3x couples and banning confederate flags.

Other than that, Bill Sweetman and company who have mocked the Marines for decades about "being stuck on Guadalcanal" have found a guy who makes the last few commandants look downright modern and 21st century. :mrgreen:


Image

oh just bless your heart
Last edited by XanderCrews on 24 Mar 2020, 07:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 07:17

So, maybe they plan on deploying with 10 F-35B's when aboard ship??? (i.e. LHA/LHD)
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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 09:13

This unilateral donation of budget share, end strength and capability is premature and this CMC will learn the hard way that he will get no credit for these actions when the next budget drill happens in the wake of fiscal stimulus.

“But I gave up 20% of my TOA back in 2020.” (‘TOA’ is ‘total obligation authority’)

“Thank you, but it is now 2022 (...or whenever). Give us 40% and we’ll call it done.”
Last edited by quicksilver on 24 Mar 2020, 09:23, edited 1 time in total.
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quicksilver

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 09:18

“The proposed reductions are meant to make the Corps lighter and more nimble to fight China in a 21st century version of the Pacific island hopping campaign during World War II," Berger said in an interview with Gordon.“

Someone has confused a theater-specific task organization for a service force structure.
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mixelflick

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 12:03

quicksilver wrote:“The proposed reductions are meant to make the Corps lighter and more nimble to fight China in a 21st century version of the Pacific island hopping campaign during World War II," Berger said in an interview with Gordon.“

Someone has confused a theater-specific task organization for a service force structure.


Don't know enough about warfare to say if what the Marines are doing is best. I trust they do, given the many sacrifices they've made for the nation. I do wonder why they're angling for more F-35C's vs. B's. It would seem if being nimble for island hopping is their goal, more B's would be the ticket. I love the C though, and think with an improved motor it'll be the most capable variant.

A C with 6 internal AMRAAM's and perhaps 2 on the wingtips, plus 19,000lbs of fuel with a more powerful/less thirsty engine is a dream come true. Make that configuration 12 Perigrine and I think it'd be unstoppable. The only downer is no gun, but I understand that was a tradeoff made for more fuel. I'd love to be flying any one of them, but the C so configured would be the one I'd prefer to take into combat...
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madrat

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 12:11

Haven't all MEU's up to this point been fairly unique due to their flexible structure? That was the point when the concept originated.
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quicksilver

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 12:39

madrat wrote:Haven't all MEU's up to this point been fairly unique due to their flexible structure? That was the point when the concept originated.


There have been some exceptions, and in many cases there is some adjustment around the edges, but for the most part they have been cookie cutter entities.
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quicksilver

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 12:46

From the WSJ article on the same topic —

“I think it is a mistake to organize yourself in a way to go after a specific region,” said Anthony Zinni, a retired four-star Marine general who led the Central Command. “Something could happen tomorrow with the Iranians. The answer is to be ready, expeditionary and balanced.”

I agree.
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quicksilver

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Unread post24 Mar 2020, 12:57

weasel1962 wrote:In the FY 2021 budget, the F-35B program total was cut to 324 (cut by 29) whilst the F-35C program total was boosted to 369 (added 29). That suggests maybe 4 sqns (all B sqns from FY 22) will be at 10 B instead of 16 B whilst keeping the same number of B sqns. That could mean adding ~2 more C sqns (likely could be USMC). Could be thinking Japan deployment, instead of carrier.

P.s. There are no 16C sqn in previous USMC aviation plans so can't cut those.


Apart from making some adjustments to meet budget numbers, the USMC has played around with B/C numbers periodically for the last decade.
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weasel1962

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Unread post25 Mar 2020, 03:44

I pored thru the budget docs to revalidate the post. Apparently the FY2021 program total is not a change of numbers but instead reflects that pre-FY 2011 STOVL and CV numbers were conflated and thus 29 Bs (lots 2-4) were added to the C total. Budget docs still reflect 340 Cs and 353 Bs.

Pls ignore my earlier post. Thanks.
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