MARINE AVIATION PLAN 2019 - USMC

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spazsinbad

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Unread post06 Apr 2019, 02:08

MARINE AVIATION PLAN 2019 - USMC

F-35B/C relevant excerpts attached below in 14 page (reprinted) PDF

PDF: https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... AvPlan.pdf (31Mb)

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Last edited by spazsinbad on 06 Apr 2019, 05:40, edited 1 time in total.
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weasel1962

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Unread post06 Apr 2019, 04:36

Looks like the additional 13C top up to 80C will go to the FRS detachment at Lemoore (~10C under VFA 125 from 5 in the 2018 plan). This may explain the accelerated C buy in FY 2020 budget.

The slow down in B buy pushes back VMFA-225 unless the additional buy takes place. VMFA-242 is pushed forward from FY 2028 to FY 2021 and based at Japan. That means 2 sqns forward based in Japan instead of 1.
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Unread post06 Apr 2019, 06:22

The future height-of-burst fuze addition to the APKWS is interesting.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post06 Apr 2019, 22:19

Marine Corps May Extend AV-8B Harrier Service to 2028
04 Apr 2019 RICHARD R. BURGESS

"WASHINGTON — The Marine Corps’ fleet of AV-8B Harrier II attack aircraft may serve until 2028, the Corps’ aviation chief told Congress, a two-year extension of the previous plan. “We will continue to be a fourth-gen/fifth-gen [tactical aircraft] fleet out until about 2030, with Harriers probably going to 2028 and F/A-18s going to 2030-2031,” said Lt. Gen. Steven R. Rudder, the Marine Corps’ deputy commandant for aviation....

...According to one source, a planned F-35B deployment on a third ship this year was assumed instead by a detachment of AV-8Bs. Rudder said the Corps plans to achieve a 100% fifth-generation tactical fighter force by 2030. He said the mixture percentage of fourth-gen to fifth-gen fighters in the Marine Corps today is 80-20.

The Marine Corps operates three operational[?] F-35B squadrons and its first F-35C squadron, VMFA-314, is in transition."

Source: http://seapowermagazine.org/stories/201 ... rrier.html
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post07 Apr 2019, 13:09

spazsinbad wrote:
Marine Corps May Extend AV-8B Harrier Service to 2028
04 Apr 2019 RICHARD R. BURGESS

"WASHINGTON — The Marine Corps’ fleet of AV-8B Harrier II attack aircraft may serve until 2028, the Corps’ aviation chief told Congress, a two-year extension of the previous plan. “We will continue to be a fourth-gen/fifth-gen [tactical aircraft] fleet out until about 2030, with Harriers probably going to 2028 and F/A-18s going to 2030-2031,” said Lt. Gen. Steven R. Rudder, the Marine Corps’ deputy commandant for aviation....

...According to one source, a planned F-35B deployment on a third ship this year was assumed instead by a detachment of AV-8Bs. Rudder said the Corps plans to achieve a 100% fifth-generation tactical fighter force by 2030. He said the mixture percentage of fourth-gen to fifth-gen fighters in the Marine Corps today is 80-20.

The Marine Corps operates three operational[?] F-35B squadrons and its first F-35C squadron, VMFA-314, is in transition."

Source: http://seapowermagazine.org/stories/201 ... rrier.html


The Marines fly the legacy Hornet, do they not? And they're going to fly it until 2030ish? They're being held together today by duck tape and super-glue. How in the hell are they going to fly for another 10/11 years? That's not right, they need to accelerate the F-35B/C buy..
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Unread post07 Apr 2019, 21:58

mixelflick wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:
Marine Corps May Extend AV-8B Harrier Service to 2028
04 Apr 2019 RICHARD R. BURGESS

"WASHINGTON — The Marine Corps’ fleet of AV-8B Harrier II attack aircraft may serve until 2028, the Corps’ aviation chief told Congress, a two-year extension of the previous plan. “We will continue to be a fourth-gen/fifth-gen [tactical aircraft] fleet out until about 2030, with Harriers probably going to 2028 and F/A-18s going to 2030-2031,” said Lt. Gen. Steven R. Rudder, the Marine Corps’ deputy commandant for aviation....

...According to one source, a planned F-35B deployment on a third ship this year was assumed instead by a detachment of AV-8Bs. Rudder said the Corps plans to achieve a 100% fifth-generation tactical fighter force by 2030. He said the mixture percentage of fourth-gen to fifth-gen fighters in the Marine Corps today is 80-20.

The Marine Corps operates three operational[?] F-35B squadrons and its first F-35C squadron, VMFA-314, is in transition."

Source: http://seapowermagazine.org/stories/201 ... rrier.html


The Marines fly the legacy Hornet, do they not? And they're going to fly it until 2030ish? They're being held together today by duck tape and super-glue. How in the hell are they going to fly for another 10/11 years? That's not right, they need to accelerate the F-35B/C buy..

That's why they're all getting SLEP'd, and upgraded with new avionics, comms, EW, etc...
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Unread post07 Apr 2019, 22:50

We're probably seeing some leading edge indicators of what the services think the budget top line is going to look like over the next 5-10 years.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Apr 2019, 03:43

Sure wish the USN would make their plan public.... :(
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blain

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Unread post08 Apr 2019, 19:21

Corsair1963 wrote:Sure wish the USN would make their plan public.... :(


Then you would see their plan is to slow roll the F-35C and buy more Super Hornets. I am curious at what point will the Navy begin to accelerate conversion to the F-35C. It took VFA-147 almost a year to convert. We will not see a Navy squadron in the pipeline for conversion to maybe 2020? I am thinking you can increasing capacity within VFA-125 to do more than 1 squadron a year.

I have said this in another forum. I think the mix of Bs and Cs is all wrong. The current force is 10 legacy Hornet squadrons, 2 F-35B squadrons, and 5 AV-8B squadrons. If you converted the rest of the Harriers to F-35Bs and the legacy Hornets to F-35Cs, or even if you had a 50/50 mix, wouldn't you have enough Bs for the MEU rotations, filling decks of LHAs/LHDs serving as light carriers in peace and in war, and have enough to operate out of austere locations?

The Navy is there service with the issue with capacity. CVWs have less fighters assigned to them during the Cold War. Air tasking is more difficult with the need to assign fighters to fleet defense. In need more and not less fighters in the CVW. There is deck space available.

Cs are cheaper than Bs.

Why carry around a lift fan if you don't have to? The ability to carry more munitions and fuel to extend loiter time one the battlefield, or to conduct long range missions might be more important in the future than STOVL.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Apr 2019, 23:50

blain wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Sure wish the USN would make their plan public.... :(


Then you would see their plan is to slow roll the F-35C and buy more Super Hornets. I am curious at what point will the Navy begin to accelerate conversion to the F-35C. It took VFA-147 almost a year to convert. We will not see a Navy squadron in the pipeline for conversion to maybe 2020? I am thinking you can increasing capacity within VFA-125 to do more than 1 squadron a year.

I have said this in another forum. I think the mix of Bs and Cs is all wrong. The current force is 10 legacy Hornet squadrons, 2 F-35B squadrons, and 5 AV-8B squadrons. If you converted the rest of the Harriers to F-35Bs and the legacy Hornets to F-35Cs, or even if you had a 50/50 mix, wouldn't you have enough Bs for the MEU rotations, filling decks of LHAs/LHDs serving as light carriers in peace and in war, and have enough to operate out of austere locations?

The Navy is there service with the issue with capacity. CVWs have less fighters assigned to them during the Cold War. Air tasking is more difficult with the need to assign fighters to fleet defense. In need more and not less fighters in the CVW. There is deck space available.

Cs are cheaper than Bs.

Why carry around a lift fan if you don't have to? The ability to carry more munitions and fuel to extend loiter time one the battlefield, or to conduct long range missions might be more important in the future than STOVL.



Actually, the USN does have a steady plan. We just don't have the specific squadrons that will convert and the timeline.


Current plan is to acquire ~ 20-24 F-35C's per year. Which, would support the conversion of two squadrons. Which, is turn would equip a single CVW. (Carrier Air Wing) To support that the FY2020 Defense Budget has 20 F-35C's. Yet, Congress usually adds additional aircraft up and above what is requested.


Plus, it was just announced the USMC would move up it's orders for F-35C's to support Carrier Operations. While, pushing back the F-35B's in order to do so....

Marines Accelerating F-35C Procurement to Support Carrier Deployments; F-35B Buys Would Slow

By: Megan Eckstein

CAPITOL HILL – The Marine Corps is accelerating its F-35C carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter procurement and slowing its F-35B vertical landing variant to support Navy deployment requirements, the Marines’ top aviator told lawmakers today.

In its Fiscal Year 2020 budget request the Marines asked for 10 fewer F-35Bs; in the budget’s projection for outyears, the service dropped its planned F-35B buys by five F-35Bs in 2021 and three in FY 2022. For the F-35C, though, the service increased its request by nine planes in the five-year Future Years Defense Program.

Lt. Gen. Steven Rudder, deputy commandant of the Marine Corps for aviation, told the House Armed Services tactical air and land forces subcommittee that those changes were meant to support upcoming deployments.

https://news.usni.org/2019/04/04/marine ... hCscJRLoeI
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post09 Apr 2019, 00:46

blain wrote:I think the mix of Bs and Cs is all wrong. The current force is 10 legacy Hornet squadrons, 2 F-35B squadrons, and 5 AV-8B squadrons. If you converted the rest of the Harriers to F-35Bs and the legacy Hornets to F-35Cs, or even if you had a 50/50 mix, wouldn't you have enough Bs for the MEU rotations, filling decks of LHAs/LHDs serving as light carriers in peace and in war, and have enough to operate out of austere locations?


Per the USMC plan, there are converting many of the F-18 sqdns to the B, not the C.

They are going from 11 F-18 sqdns to 4 F-35C sqdns.
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Unread post09 Apr 2019, 01:18

Corsair1963 wrote:
blain wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Sure wish the USN would make their plan public.... :(


Then you would see their plan is to slow roll the F-35C and buy more Super Hornets. I am curious at what point will the Navy begin to accelerate conversion to the F-35C. It took VFA-147 almost a year to convert. We will not see a Navy squadron in the pipeline for conversion to maybe 2020? I am thinking you can increasing capacity within VFA-125 to do more than 1 squadron a year.

I have said this in another forum. I think the mix of Bs and Cs is all wrong. The current force is 10 legacy Hornet squadrons, 2 F-35B squadrons, and 5 AV-8B squadrons. If you converted the rest of the Harriers to F-35Bs and the legacy Hornets to F-35Cs, or even if you had a 50/50 mix, wouldn't you have enough Bs for the MEU rotations, filling decks of LHAs/LHDs serving as light carriers in peace and in war, and have enough to operate out of austere locations?

The Navy is there service with the issue with capacity. CVWs have less fighters assigned to them during the Cold War. Air tasking is more difficult with the need to assign fighters to fleet defense. In need more and not less fighters in the CVW. There is deck space available.

Cs are cheaper than Bs.

Why carry around a lift fan if you don't have to? The ability to carry more munitions and fuel to extend loiter time one the battlefield, or to conduct long range missions might be more important in the future than STOVL.



Actually, the USN does have a steady plan. We just don't have the specific squadrons that will convert and the timeline.


Current plan is to acquire ~ 20-24 F-35C's per year. Which, would support the conversion of two squadrons. Which, is turn would equip a single CVW. (Carrier Air Wing) To support that the FY2020 Defense Budget has 20 F-35C's. Yet, Congress usually adds additional aircraft up and above what is requested.


Plus, it was just announced the USMC would move up it's orders for F-35C's to support Carrier Operations. While, pushing back the F-35B's in order to do so....

Marines Accelerating F-35C Procurement to Support Carrier Deployments; F-35B Buys Would Slow

By: Megan Eckstein

CAPITOL HILL – The Marine Corps is accelerating its F-35C carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter procurement and slowing its F-35B vertical landing variant to support Navy deployment requirements, the Marines’ top aviator told lawmakers today.

In its Fiscal Year 2020 budget request the Marines asked for 10 fewer F-35Bs; in the budget’s projection for outyears, the service dropped its planned F-35B buys by five F-35Bs in 2021 and three in FY 2022. For the F-35C, though, the service increased its request by nine planes in the five-year Future Years Defense Program.

Lt. Gen. Steven Rudder, deputy commandant of the Marine Corps for aviation, told the House Armed Services tactical air and land forces subcommittee that those changes were meant to support upcoming deployments.

https://news.usni.org/2019/04/04/marine ... hCscJRLoeI

See 1st post this item in 2020 BUDGET thread p.18: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=55106&p=416014&hilit=accelerating#p416014
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Unread post09 Apr 2019, 01:51

The overall navy plan is clear.

820 strike fighters (not including EA), 440 will be in 40 active strike fighter sqn (10-12 fighters each) + (22) 2 reserve sqn and the remainder, BAI & attrition reserves.
Out of this 820, 260 will eventually be F-35C in 18 active sqn + 1 training.
Source (pg 4): https://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS25 ... 160204.pdf

Add 420 F-35B/C per USMC plan will provide eventual total fighter inventory of 1,240.

18 USN + 4 USMC F-35C @ 4 sqn per CVN, the USN should be able to field 5-6 CVN with F-35C which is the expected surge of CVN available at any one time. Otherwise, 22 sqn of 10 F-35Cs each will provide the 11 CVNs, 2 F-35C sqn each. CVN 68, 69 and 73 have already flown F-35Cs.

thru FY 2019, congress has funded 618 F/A-18E/F (and add 24 if FY 2020 budget is approved) although only 560 is needed.
thru FY 2019, congress has funded 69 F-35C (and add 20 if FY 2020 budget is approved).

Per SAR both F-35B/C buys will complete by FY 2031 (Delivery FY 2033) so average 1-2 F-35C sqns will stand up per year.

Currently VFA-125 is noted as the FRS sqn (~30 F-35C of which 10 will be USMC) and VFA-147 is the 1st USN F-35C sqn. According to the west coast EIS, NAS lemoore will base 7 F-35C sqn + FRS sqn where the F-18 sqns based at Lemoore will convert to the F-35C by 2028. 2 F-18 sqn will be shifted from the east coast to Lemoore and those that were F-18C will transition to the super hornet first.
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Unread post09 Apr 2019, 03:01

weasel1962 wrote:The overall navy plan is clear.

820 strike fighters (not including EA), 440 will be in 40 active strike fighter sqn (10-12 fighters each) + (22) 2 reserve sqn and the remainder, BAI & attrition reserves.
Out of this 820, 260 will eventually be F-35C in 18 active sqn + 1 training.
Source (pg 4): https://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS25 ... 160204.pdf

Add 420 F-35B/C per USMC plan will provide eventual total fighter inventory of 1,240.

18 USN + 4 USMC F-35C @ 4 sqn per CVN, the USN should be able to field 5-6 CVN with F-35C which is the expected surge of CVN available at any one time. Otherwise, 22 sqn of 10 F-35Cs each will provide the 11 CVNs, 2 F-35C sqn each. CVN 68, 69 and 73 have already flown F-35Cs.

thru FY 2019, congress has funded 618 F/A-18E/F (and add 24 if FY 2020 budget is approved) although only 560 is needed.
thru FY 2019, congress has funded 69 F-35C (and add 20 if FY 2020 budget is approved).

Per SAR both F-35B/C buys will complete by FY 2031 (Delivery FY 2033) so average 1-2 F-35C sqns will stand up per year.

Currently VFA-125 is noted as the FRS sqn (~30 F-35C of which 10 will be USMC) and VFA-147 is the 1st USN F-35C sqn. According to the west coast EIS, NAS lemoore will base 7 F-35C sqn + FRS sqn where the F-18 sqns based at Lemoore will convert to the F-35C by 2028. 2 F-18 sqn will be shifted from the east coast to Lemoore and those that were F-18C will transition to the super hornet first.


Don't forget the four USMC F-35C Units too. With VMFA-314 converting as we speak....

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