F-35Bs Establishing potential of Australian aircraft carrier

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mixelflick

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Unread post30 Jan 2019, 13:10

Corsair1963 wrote:Odd are that Australia will acquire the F-35B and likely modify the Canberra Class to operate them. Sorry, that some get so worked up about the idea.... :|


"IMHO"


I hope they do. Here's why...

It's pretty apparent that AUS runs one of the most (if not THE most) professional and capable air arms in the neighborhood. As such, any large scale threat to their neck of the woods is going to largely fall on them. .Chinese ambitions likely don't include AUS in the short term, but in the longer term anything is possible, and that's what you need to plan for. A carrier capable force for a country surrounded by water (to me) is a no brainer, and the very real threat of Chinese subs firing cruise missiles at AUS airfields/cities is certainly a possibility, so any anti-sub helicopters will need protection, especially from Chinese aircraft carriers and J-15's (or whatever comes next).

For without the F-35B, those subs (with J-15's covering for them) will operate with impunity. Not going to be pretty when Chinese AAM's start raining down on defenseless AUS anti-sub helicopters and P-8's (if memory serves, they have a few)..
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 04:20

Another look by ASPI writer 'bout Bees on LHDs - certainly down under we have to THUNK DUFFERENT or embarrassment.
The F-35B won’t solve Australia’s defence dilemmas
12 Feb 2019 Ewen Levick

"In a recent Strategist article, Malcolm Davis asked an interesting question: should Australia take a cue from Japan and deploy F-35Bs (the short take-off and vertical landing variant of the joint strike fighter) at sea?

The debate is complex. The argument against rests on the significant cost burdens associated with converting the navy’s existing landing helicopter docks to accommodate the F-35Bs or acquiring a new one (although this point has been disputed) [ https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lhd-a ... -opens-up/ ]. There’s also, as Davis explains, a serious question about the survivability of large surface vessels in a war involving anti-ship ballistic and cruise missiles (a point that transcends the F-35B issue).

The argument for, on the other hand, rests on the aircraft’s potential as an enabler of a ‘system of systems’. In an operational context, that means participating in a common multi-spectrum sensor network that allows any platform to engage a target outside its line of sight, speeding up the observe–orient–decide–act loop and cementing decision superiority. That would make the aircraft a significant force multiplier for both the navy and the amphibious force it is built to deploy.

From a strategic point of view, adding a small aircraft carrier to the ADF’s capabilities would enable Australia to project force well beyond the limits of land-based aircraft. Overall, it seems the idea has traction. Davis argues that, ‘If the money is made available, a third LHD with a wing of between 12 and 16 F-35Bs, supported by a larger fleet of destroyers and frigates, is an option that should be on the agenda in any force structure debate.’...

...If the F-35B is on the agenda to improve our force-projection capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, then the agenda must also include an organisational structure that can better compete left of launch [explained in article]. Otherwise, the aircraft will deploy into an environment shaped by the adversary."

Source: https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-f ... -dilemmas/
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 04:33

Honestly, don't see a case for a dedicated F-35B Aircraft Carrier for the RAN. Yet, I do see the benefit of acquiring a modest number of F-35B's. Which, could operate from either the Canberra Class of LPD's or from forward austere airfields. As the ADF dictates....


If, the critics can't see that. Then they're blind....... :doh:
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 05:13

The critics are the ADF and all the blog posts in the world linked here, won't change that.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 06:56

I'm curious to know how you know 'critics are the ADF'? Does the ADF have a HIVE MIND? How do you know this 'optimist'.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 08:34

ADF don't want the f-35b, end of story. They gave a report saying as such, look up what is published.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 08:36

Corsair1963 wrote:If, the critics can't see that. Then they're blind....... :doh:


I'm wondering if a development of something like the GA Avenger UCAV couldn't get us an escort capability, strike capability and ISR, with speed, long-legs and loiter from northern basing, with ocean Island support, if not KC-30A support.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 09:13

optimist wrote:ADF don't want the f-35b, end of story. They gave a report saying as such, look up what is published.

So where is this mythical report? Only one newspaper quote that such a report exists but nothing else - SAY WUT? You look it up and report back - thanks. YATO you are the one making this claim about the report so YFI - YOU FIND IT. Clear?
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 09:24

There is sufficient on google. Obviously nothing I say, or the defence professionals at Defence Talk means anything to you. Nor any of the threads that have been locked on more than one site. You have a wish with the f-35b that you can't let go.
Contact some old buddies you trust and see if they have a relative in the know. They might share some unclass on the subject
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 10:21

YATLO You are the lazy one. YOU find what you need - YOU make claims that you cannot back up. So where is this mythical report? YOU find it for us. I have no wish other than to read the report you refer to these days. Otherwise I wish the ADF well but I have not sighted 'the report'. YOU make lots of claims about me but I make none about YOU. Capice?
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 11:14

This is getting as bad as a Rafale thread. Nothing I, or anyone else can say will let you put this down. Again I defer to Defence Talk and the current serving in DMO RAAF and RAN who have schooled you on this. In the end they had to lock the thread because of the nonsense.
I note you haven't put up a gov link in anyway supporting your views.

The defence minister indicated it was thrown out years ago, where he said the acquisition of the F-35B was “an option which has been considered from day one.”. and ADF threw it to the white paper for consideration as a way of dumping it. Needless to say there was no mention of the f-35b in the white paper when it came out.
http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/0 ... ds-report/


You aren't going to get the actual ADF report to gov. it's classified. You are going to get enough to say they thought it was a stupid thought bubble from Abbot that they had to make the gestures to not show him up.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 11:29

I'm waiting for the report - not reports on 'the report'. And why me? You have already mentioned the 'blogposts' such as ASPI - why not include them. It is not just me. I'm interested. Obviously you have no interest so you should let it be. No?
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 11:40

I'm sure there are no shortage of bored writers, perhaps there may be some more submissions to parliament for it. I guess I'm signalling you out because you are here and are reposting this nonsense. If the authors were here I'd say the same to them. I thought you would know better. Other than this subject the stuff you say makes sense. You just can't let this go, the ADF want nothing to do with the f-35b, other than joint stuff with USMC.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 11:59

I'd have thought SINGLING would have been a better word but HEY I just like MANGLING English. Amazing how "I should know better". I do. That is why I'm interested. Why you are not takes you to explain - not me. And BTW what is your own expertise? "...the ADF want nothing to do with the f-35b..." HOW do you know? Yet I have quoted AM Brown RAAF on this.
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Unread post13 Feb 2019, 12:31

I didn't see your link to Brown, could you give me your post. I'm sure the RAAF doesn't want any f-35b out of their 100.
How do I know that the ADF doesn't want them? Is because when Abbott offered, they refused. All they had to say was "yes, what a wonderful idea. Why didn't we think of this." we would have a squadron of F-35b ordered already and wouldn't have any use for these threads
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