Navy: F-35C Will Be Eyes and Ears of the Fleet

Variants for different customers or mission profiles
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 Oct 2014, 01:25

Everyone is going to grow 'ears & spears' in the USN (and our RAN I'ma hopin'):
Navy Forges New EW Strategy: Electromagnetic Maneuver Warfare
10 Oct 2014 Sydney J. Freedberg Jr. and Colin Clark

"...The Navy Vision: Beyond The Growler...
...“Everyone looks at the EA-18G as ‘the’ electronic warfare platform,” said Capt. Scott Farr, deputy commander of the Pacific Fleet’s electronic attack wing on Whidbey Island, Washington. “Well, in naval aviation, we are interweaving electronic warfare into every platform.” That includes the new P-8 Poseidon patrol plane, the upgraded E-2D Hawkeye radar plane, even the MH-60R helicopter, plus the soon-to-arrive F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, he told me in a phone call: “All of those platforms are going to have a lot more play in… electronic warfare.”

“The whole basis of electronic maneuver warfare is to bring all those capabilities to bear,” agreed Gamberg at the AOC conference. “The EA-18G with the Next Generation Jammer is really the cornerstone capability,” he said, but only by using every possible platform — even submarines — to collect intelligence can the Navy detect elusive, low-power and rapidly changing enemy signals...."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/10/navy ... r-warfare/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post18 Oct 2014, 10:22

Wonder what the airborne twackers were and when will the F-35s get to do this?
Target missile intercepted during test off Hawaii
17 Oct 2014 Associated Press

"KEKAHA >> The military says it successfully intercepted a medium-range missile during a test off Hawaii.

The Defense Department says Thursday's test was to demonstrate that the Aegis defense system can engage and track a ballistic missile while using only tracks from remote airborne sensors.

The target missile was launched from Kauai's Pacific Missile Range Facility...."

Source: http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/brea ... awaii.html
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7719
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post18 Oct 2014, 12:57

spazsinbad wrote:Wonder what the airborne twackers were and when will the F-35s get to do this?
Target missile intercepted during test off Hawaii
17 Oct 2014 Associated Press

"KEKAHA >> The military says it successfully intercepted a medium-range missile during a test off Hawaii.

The Defense Department says Thursday's test was to demonstrate that the Aegis defense system can engage and track a ballistic missile while using only tracks from remote airborne sensors.

The target missile was launched from Kauai's Pacific Missile Range Facility...."

Source: http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/brea ... awaii.html

Both E-2 and JLENS are CEC-compatible so one of the two.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post25 Oct 2014, 00:46

Two USN ships get jiggy with it - NIFC-CA baby:
You Spot, I Shoot: Aegis Ships Share Data To Destroy Cruise Missiles
24 Oct 2014 Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.

"...That “cooperative engagement capability” is crucial to the Navy’s vision of a future fleet that acts as a single network, each part sharing the data gathered by the whole. This is a concept that then-think-tanker Robert Work — later Deputy Secretary of the Navy and now Deputy Secretary of Defense — promulgated in 2008 as the Total Force Battle Network. It’s the bedrock of the program called NIFC-CA (Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air), which will link Navy ships, fighters, and E-2D Hawkeye radar planes [& other air assets such as F-35s] into a single network. Instead of each ship or plane only being able to fire on threats it can see with its own sensors — which may be at the last minute or even too late, given how low and fast some cruise missiles move — the fleet as a whole can engage incoming enemies as soon as anyone sees them...."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/10/you- ... -together/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7719
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post25 Oct 2014, 03:54

Good to kick the tires on old Betsy and fire up the engine to make sure it works... mundane stuff like the article notes. Some years back AEGIS BMD did something similar ie. Launching-on-remote to take down a ballistic missile threat. Looking forward to when F-35 joins the party though I note no plans currently on CEC certification. Still, as the eyes and ears of the fleet expanding coverage well beyond what even E-2D provides, hard to imagine otherwise.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

meatshield

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2011, 03:09
  • Location: QLD

Unread post19 Nov 2014, 01:53

meatshield wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Someone was at the 'West2014' briefing (see video in past thread pages for more info) or even watched the video to report on it. I'll extract only the LCDR Burks quote about launching weapons from anywhere by the F-35. NavAvers like headwinds for landing BTW - called WOD - not too much and not too little - the ideal is just right. :mrgreen:

Navy F-35C Prepares for Ship Trials, Faces Headwinds 17 Feb 2014 Sandra I. Erwin
"...“We are only half way through the initial development plan,” says Navy Lt. Cmdr. Michael Burks, a test pilot with 150 hours in the cockpit of the F-35C and B....

...The priorities for the Navy’s F-35C are to finish software development and to fix glitches in the helmet-mounted displays, Burks says during a recent industry conference in San Diego. Then the Navy will have to decide how to incorporate the F-35C into an already crowded air wing. [crowded? I thought there was 'too few' aircraft on board these days?]

“There will be some challenges integrating the F-35 on the carrier. Most have been identified,” he says. A carrier air wing typically has anywhere from 44 to 54 fighter jets. The Navy expects that for the foreseeable future, most of the fighters in the air wing will be Super Hornets, and that the F-35C will have a niche role as an airborne intelligence nerve center.

The F-35C will be predominantly an “information collector and distributor in the air wing,” says Burks. As the Navy’s only “stealth” aircraft that can fly undetected by radar, it will be prepared to “go alone into highly contested areas,” he adds. But most of the time it will serve as the hub of a “network centric” air wing.

“It may not matter what weapon we have on board,” Burks says. F-35 pilots will pass information over the network that would allow other aircraft to engage targets. “I may pull the trigger in the cockpit but the weapon may come from a different platform,” he explains...."
&
"...The officer in charge of the F-35, Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, says in a 60 Minutes interview that the price tag of at least $115 billion per aircraft is too high, but the Pentagon intends to stick with the plan. “I don’t see any scenario where we’re walking back away from this program.” [SPRINT! Don't WALK!] :doh:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... a2&ID=1415


That's an excellent interview, saw it today as "f35 Roundtable" on YouTube. The quote from the Lockheed test pilot that they need a longer ranged missile for the f35 was interesting. Also the navy test pilot Burks sounds positively bullish on the c variant and what it will bring to the carrier operations. His description of the auto approach function of the f35 and how it will cut training time and fixing the tail hook problems was brilliant.


Looks like commander Burks was on the money when discribing f35's ability to find the deck! And he wasn't just a mouth piece for a company like some people suggested....
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6353
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42

Unread post19 Nov 2014, 14:45

meatshield wrote:Looks like commander Burks was on the money when discribing f35's ability to find the deck! And he wasn't just a mouth piece for a company like some people suggested....


Of all the disgusting insults that have been heaved at this program, trying to throw the military personnel under the bus has probably been the most infuriating.

Its also probably the biggest "break" in terms of the great JSF internet debate. People may not trust the corporations building the JSF, or the Governments that selected it, but when you start throwing military people, including combat pilots, and others who have decades of experience including real shooting wars under the bus as paid shills you may have "gone around the bend" a tad. If you can't trust the Military who have the most real world experience, and would suffer the most for a bad platform, who can you trust?

(its a trick question the answer is the guy on the internet telling you not to believe them of course) :roll:

I have noticed that big "blind spot" for JSF detractors is not mentioning the military and their opinions, they would rather it be the the uniformed public vs a nebulous lockheed martin.
Choose Crews
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7719
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post19 Nov 2014, 17:22

XanderCrews wrote: If you can't trust the Military who have the most real world experience, and would suffer the most for a bad platform, who can you trust?

Apparently, McCain, Ayotte and company.. :roll:
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

neurotech

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2346
  • Joined: 09 May 2012, 21:34

Unread post19 Nov 2014, 21:10

popcorn wrote:
XanderCrews wrote: If you can't trust the Military who have the most real world experience, and would suffer the most for a bad platform, who can you trust?

Apparently, McCain, Ayotte and company.. :roll:

I can't figure out Sen. McCain's position on procurement, especially strike fighters.

Some people would argue that having upgraded, capable, A-4Ks sitting in storage for a decade is a "national disgrace" too. The avionics in the Draken A-4Ks would be a dream compared to what Navy A-4 pilots flew with, a lesson then Lcdr. McCain learned the hard way. Having an ECM capability to disrupt a SAM radar lock... why would a strike fighter need that?

The reality is that developing and building jet fighters is an expensive business. I remember running the numbers on the various choices (F-35A vs F-16V+, F-35C vs F/A-18ASH) and the cost saving just isn't there to justify not proceeding with a 5th gen F-35 fleet. Does everyone know how much a EA-18G with mission avionics and 2 ALQ-99s costs? I doubt its much cheaper than a F-35C (in FRP).

Both the F-35C and the EA-18G have different and complementary roles in the fleet, but calling the F-35 "national disgrace" on cost grounds is misguided at best.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6532
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post20 Nov 2014, 05:12

neurotech wrote:
popcorn wrote:
XanderCrews wrote: If you can't trust the Military who have the most real world experience, and would suffer the most for a bad platform, who can you trust?

Apparently, McCain, Ayotte and company.. :roll:

I can't figure out Sen. McCain's position on procurement, especially strike fighters.

Some people would argue that having upgraded, capable, A-4Ks sitting in storage for a decade is a "national disgrace" too. The avionics in the Draken A-4Ks would be a dream compared to what Navy A-4 pilots flew with, a lesson then Lcdr. McCain learned the hard way. Having an ECM capability to disrupt a SAM radar lock... why would a strike fighter need that?

The reality is that developing and building jet fighters is an expensive business. I remember running the numbers on the various choices (F-35A vs F-16V+, F-35C vs F/A-18ASH) and the cost saving just isn't there to justify not proceeding with a 5th gen F-35 fleet. Does everyone know how much a EA-18G with mission avionics and 2 ALQ-99s costs? I doubt its much cheaper than a F-35C (in FRP).

Both the F-35C and the EA-18G have different and complementary roles in the fleet, but calling the F-35 "national disgrace" on cost grounds is misguided at best.


Sen. John McCain is 100% politician and if you think of him that way. Then his actions make a great deal of sense! :wink:

So, he will complain at the top of his lungs. Yet, in the end he will support the JSF Program. (i.e. F-35) He just wants the appearance that his action have improved the process and in doing so he will receive a good deal of credit for it's turn around. Regardless, if his action really had a major impact at all. :doh:

Remember, McCain has wanted to be the Chairman of the Senate Arms Service Committee for sometime and in some ways even more so than the US Presidency. Now with the Republicans winning control of the Senate. He will get his wish....

I've meet the dear Senator on a number of occasions. He is not a bad man..........he is just a politician! :?
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post21 Nov 2014, 10:30

Navy to share latest in virtual aviation training at key industry trade show
20 Nov 2014 AIR-1.0 Public Affairs

"...Capt. Craig Dorrans, program manager for PMA-205, will share how Live, Virtual, Constructive (LVC) training, has become a game changer for naval aviation....

...An LVC scenario would work like this: A live F/A-18 aircraft flies a strike mission using a training range. The aircrew has communications and is interoperable with E-2D aircraft simulators via the Navy Continuous Training Environment, a system that connects geographically dispersed simulators and systems with geographically separated forces and offers training on-demand. Using simulators, the aircrews are providing battle management support. Computer-generated enemy aircraft are being uploaded to the systems of both the live and simulated aircraft. The two platforms must work together to overtake the “adversaries” and complete the mission scenario.

Like the Navy, the Marine Corps has also invested in LVC. The service’s Aviation Distributed Virtual Training Environment (ADVTE) links virtual aircrew training systems and constructive players through Network Exercise Control Centers located at 2nd and 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Aviation Training System Sites.

“ADVTE allows geographically dispersed Marines the capability to link together for training and mission rehearsals,” said Col. David Owen, PMA-205 Marine Corps training systems lead. “As with other simulation, ADVTE provides the opportunity for considerable savings. Since trainers can be linked during training, ADVTE can be viewed as a cost-savings multiplier.”

The Navy is already introducing elements of LVC today and will continue to add capability and increase fidelity in formal LVC training events through 2020...."

CAPTION: "An E-2C Tactical Operational Flight Trainer, similar to this one was used to simulate the cross-platform warfighting capability known as Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air, or NIFC-CA. The exercise, conducted at E-2 Systems Test and Evaluation Laboratory at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md., was the first time Airborne Command and Control Squadron (VAW) 125 aircrews participated in NIFC-CA training. (U.S. Navy photo)"
PIC: http://www.navair.navy.mil/img/uploads/Trainer_1.jpg


Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=5778

Flight Ready: Live Virtual Constructive
Published on Nov 17, 2014 NAVAIRSYSCOM[

"It's virtually changing training and helping warfighters conduct missions anytime, anywhere, with anyone around the world. Learn how the Live Virtual Constructive environment saves time, money and increases mission readiness across the fleet."

Attachments
Trainer_1.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post20 Jan 2015, 00:00

Getting NIFCAKA with it - TOPdome - straight from... SWOs....
Navy to Build Aegis Trainers for Surface Warfare Officers at ‘TOPGUN’
19 Jan 2015 Sam LaGrone

"U.S. Navy’s surface warfare officers will learn to track and target air threats in a planned Aegis combat system simulator that will be built Naval Strike and Air Warfare Center at Naval Air Station Fallon, Nev., the head of the Navy’s new surface warfare training outfit told USNI News last week.

“TOPGUN has a facility and we’re going to add a piece to it and surface officers are going to Fallon to train,” said Rear Adm. James Kilby, the new commander of the Naval Surface Warfighting Development Center. “It’ll be within the next two years, we’re looking to do that.”

In addition to the fighter weapons school — TOPGUN — Fallon is also home to the E-2 Hawkeye and E-2D Advanced Hawkeye training school — TOPDOME.

“We’re going to take warfare commander to Fallon to integrate and train with the E-2D [Advanced Hawkeye] squadrons and fighters,” he said. “That’s going to be their capstone graduation exercise before they move on to sea and they’re going to do it again and again and again until they’re really good at it.”

The Navy is in the process of creating tighter combat information networks that will allow aircraft and ships to share targeting information for threats in a plan known as Naval Integrated Fire Control – Counter Air (NIFC-CA)...."

Source: http://news.usni.org/2015/01/19/navy-bu ... ers-topgun
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post23 Jan 2015, 06:21

:mrgreen: OMG! - Subs in UnderTheCounterNetWorks? Why - because they ain't no stealthy no more. SHADES of the F-35s eh! :devil: :doh:
Transparent Sea: The Unstealthy Future Of Submarines
22 Jan 2015 Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.

"...the oceans are getting more transparent. [I blame Global Warming :doh: ] :mrgreen:

New detection technologies from low-frequency sonar to flashing LEDs [QUE? The disco era is back?] — plus the big data computing power to enhance the faint signals they pick up — are making submarines much easier to detect. The same water-penetrating wavelengths, however, will also make it much easier for submarines to communicate with each other.

The net result should be radically new tactics, Bryan Clark, a career submariner and former top aide to the Chief of Naval Operations, says in a new study for the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments out today. Instead of submarines operating alone and unafraid, he writes, they could operate together in underwater networks. Manned submarines would lurk out of missile range, 200 nautical miles from hostile shores, and serve as motherships for unmanned mini-subs and even aerial drones that push ahead into enemy “anti-access/area denial” defenses.

This networked force — a new wolf pack?... [LUV IT! :devil: Fanks SLDinfo and Gen. Hostage]

...Overall, the new methods for detecting submarines are “analogous to what is being pursued in the electromagnetic spectrum against stealthy and other aircraft,” Clark told me. In both air and water, he said, “the advantage provided by stealth will continue to diminish.”

That doesn’t mean submarines or F-35 fighters become irrelevant, however, because platforms without stealth features will fare far worse. Stealth will become the price of entry into the warzone, he explained, instead of a ticket to penetrate undetected into enemy defenses.

As a result, Clark said, we need to start combining stand-off and stealth: Keep the manned stealth platform at a distance — where it’s harder to detect and has more time to evade attack — and send in unmanned, relatively expendable, but also stealthy platforms to do the close-in tactical work. Larger drones and unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) would deploy on their own from surface ships, while smaller systems could be launched from the submarines themselves.

Coordinating all this would be an underwater communications network. “The same technological advancements that improve undersea sensors will also improve undersea communications,” Clark said. High-frequency sound waves, lasers, or LEDs could all provide high-bandwidth datalinks underwater — albeit at shorter ranges than radio waves in air — especially with enough computing power at the receiving end to sort signal from noise. Undersea cables or relays deployed on the sea floor could extend the network all the way back to US bases on land.

This kind of connectivity could be a culture shock for submarines, who traditionally go off for months where they don’t talk with anyone, including higher command. The surface fleet has long struggled with issues of independence, initiative, and micromanagement that could now extend underwater as well. Moving towards an underwater network will hardly be easy. With Clark’s work getting personal attention from senior admirals, however, his latest proposal is likely to be taken seriously."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/tran ... ubmarines/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7719
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post24 Jan 2015, 04:02

Nice potential fit with the Navy's "Distributed Lethality" doctrine... ESG minus CSG support employing F-35Bs to extend the reach of Surface Warfare assets.



Navy to Integrate F-35 With Beyond-the-Horizon Technology



The Navy and Lockheed Martin are planning to demonstrate a beyond-the-horizon anti-ship missile detection and defense technology using an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The system, referred to as Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air, or NIFC-CA, uses Aegis radar, an airborne sensor and SM-6 missile to find, track and destroy approaching threats such as cruise missiles at ranges well beyond the typical radar horizon, Navy officials said.

Alongside Aegis radar and an SM-6 missile, NIFC-CA uses an E-2D Hawkeye aircraft as an airborne sensor to help relay threat information to the ship from beyond its normal radar range.

Lockheed is working closely with Naval Sea Systems Command, or NAVSEA, to plan a NIFC-CA demonstration at White Sands Missile Range, N.M., sometime this year or next year, a Lockheed executive said.

“We are looking at alternative airborne sensors,” the executive said.

The idea with a demonstration, sources indicate, would be to use the F-35 as an airborne relay node or sensor in place of the E-2D Hawkeye. This could allow NIFC-CA to operate against an increasingly complex set of targets such as stealthy targets, the Lockheed executive explained.


 http://defensetech.org/2015/01/22/navy-to-integrate-f-35-with-beyond-the-horizon-technology/#ixzz3Phh2A51F 
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jan 2015, 04:26

Yeah and did you see the concept that EVERY USN SHIP should have a GUN! - OK weapon - GO TEAM.

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/grow ... face-navy/
&
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/if-i ... lethality/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 Variants and Missions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests