F-35 "brake problem" - 03 May 2007

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dwightlooi

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Unread post08 May 2007, 21:19

Scorpion1alpha wrote:
MKopack wrote:
idesof wrote:Well, so much for its vaunted reliability. Any clue about the nature of the malfunction and whether it has gone back up again?


Vaunted reliability? Wow, with this 'electrical issue' and you're ready to write the whole thing off? How much time have you spent on a flightline? What do you think the ratio of Code 2 & 3's is to Code 1's?


Apparently he is. :roll: And in regards to the flightline, I betting a big donut.


We don't know how "serious" the problem is. It may be something minor enough that the aircraft will fly just fine other than a a little warning light coming on in the cockpit saying that some circuit monitoring system is reading out of the normal range.
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MKopack

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Unread post08 May 2007, 21:24

dwightlooi wrote:We don't know how "serious" the problem is. It may be something minor enough that the aircraft will fly just fine other than a a little warning light coming on in the cockpit saying that some circuit monitoring system is reading out of the normal range.


Absolutely, we're talking about a totally new type of aircraft, and a unique example with less than twenty total flights. I can imagine that under those conditions it wouldn't take much to call in an IFE (if that even happened) or call out the trucks on landing.

Realistically, what we're seeing here could have been the result of something as small as an anti-lock light with the emergency response for hot brakes (or the possibility of hot brakes) - something that we probably saw down at MacDill daily on our F-16A/B's.

Some people just don't understand that aircraft, especially high performance military aircraft aren't like having a car - even a sports car - in the driveway. When you read about how many hours of maintenance an aircraft requires per flight hour, it's based on fixing things, not keeping them pretty.

How much does anyone want to bet that with only about 20 flights the F-35 is already on a red diagional with a couple of 781A writeups?

Mike
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dwightlooi

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Unread post08 May 2007, 21:29

Also, the aircraft must have flown fine under its own power, lowered the gears and landed normally, as straight as an arrow. The only reason the pilot was pulled in the middle of the runway was probably because if you have an unknown warning light on a new machine it is good procedure to not leave a pilot in it.
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idesof

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Unread post09 May 2007, 02:32

dwightlooi wrote:Also, the aircraft must have flown fine under its own power, lowered the gears and landed normally, as straight as an arrow. The only reason the pilot was pulled in the middle of the runway was probably because if you have an unknown warning light on a new machine it is good procedure to not leave a pilot in it.


Our friend Raptor_claw sure is being silent about the whole thing, and conspicuously so. Maybe the thing is fried. Then maybe we can cancel this whole misbegotten, ugly-as-all-holy-hell POS and get some far more attractive F-16s instead! :lol:
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Ztex

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Unread post09 May 2007, 06:00

I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?


Source: http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index. ... #msg140204
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idesof

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Unread post09 May 2007, 06:15

Ztex wrote:I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,689.msg140204.html#msg140204


Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.
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idesof

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Unread post09 May 2007, 06:19

idesof wrote:
Ztex wrote:I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,689.msg140204.html#msg140204


Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


By the way, the editors of this site should post a story ASAP and contact the major news organizations to report that the very $$$$$$ F-35 prototype suffered some sort of major failure. Will be picked up by all the major wire services such as AP and Reuters, and guaranteed to generate exposure to this site, such as, "The internet site F-16.net is reporting that the JSF prototype, part of the controversial $gazillion program, has suffered a major failure..." Let me know if you guys want to move on this because if you won't, I certainly will!
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Raptor_claw

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Unread post09 May 2007, 06:45

idesof wrote:Our friend Raptor_claw sure is being silent about the whole thing, and conspicuously so.


Ya know I have been feeling a little funny. I thought it was allergies - turns out I just had a case of 'conspicuous silence'.

What I'm not is the LM V.P. for Media Relations... :roll: I'm also not an idiot, so I will just remain silent :whistle: (conspicuously or not) and enjoy the speculation.
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parrothead

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Unread post09 May 2007, 07:02

idesof wrote:
idesof wrote:
Ztex wrote:I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,689.msg140204.html#msg140204


Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


By the way, the editors of this site should post a story ASAP and contact the major news organizations to report that the very $$$$$$ F-35 prototype suffered some sort of major failure. Will be picked up by all the major wire services such as AP and Reuters, and guaranteed to generate exposure to this site, such as, "The internet site F-16.net is reporting that the JSF prototype, part of the controversial $gazillion program, has suffered a major failure..." Let me know if you guys want to move on this because if you won't, I certainly will!


Something tells me that the editors and moderators aren't nearly so crass, slanted, or alarmist as to do something like that :wink: ...
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viper1234

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Unread post09 May 2007, 07:14

I feel a hostile renaming in the works... new callsign Chiknlittle ;)
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parrothead

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Unread post09 May 2007, 07:22

You wouldn't be suggesting a change of callsign, now would you :lol: ?

Chiknlittle - I like it :lmao: !!!
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idesof

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Unread post09 May 2007, 07:41

parrothead wrote:
idesof wrote:By the way, the editors of this site should post a story ASAP and contact the major news organizations to report that the very $$$$$$ F-35 prototype suffered some sort of major failure. Will be picked up by all the major wire services such as AP and Reuters, and guaranteed to generate exposure to this site, such as, "The internet site F-16.net is reporting that the JSF prototype, part of the controversial $gazillion program, has suffered a major failure..." Let me know if you guys want to move on this because if you won't, I certainly will!


Something tells me that the editors and moderators aren't nearly so crass, slanted, or alarmist as to do something like that :wink: ...


Not crass, slanted or alarmist, merely opportunistic. The media would be all over this, and it would bring exposure to the site. It is, in fact, a legitimate news story. Simply lay out the facts and let the chips fall where they may. Like it or not, this is the way journalism works. And in this case, the public certainly has a right to know. I think it would be both prudent and legitimate to do something with this story.
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MKopack

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Unread post09 May 2007, 11:53

idesof wrote:Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


And that is obviously based on your deep knowledge of the flight control systems of the F-35 (or any other modern generation aircraft?)

Look at other F-35 photos, look at F-22 in flight photos, look at Typhoon photos, look at Rafale photos - modern flight controls DO move assymetrically - tailplanes and flaperons. Perhaps there was a problem, I don't know, I wasn't there, but it is a huge jump to make based on a couple of pictures which show a normal condition.

I hate to have to put it this way, because I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but Idesof, you're a moron. If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in your own little dream world.

idesof wrote:Like it or not, this is the way journalism works.

Well thank you for that little gem of knowledge. By the way, your editor from the Enquirer called and said that it's still not "yellow" enough for them, and that if you can add some aliens into the story it's on the cover.

Mike
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checksixx

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Unread post09 May 2007, 14:37

I'd bet since the initial report had to do with brakes that maybe he just got a hot break indication. It could have been a faulty warning light also. Most test programs dictate that the aircraft fly code-1 only. I wouldn't call this a major event by any means.
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idesof

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Unread post09 May 2007, 15:58

MKopack wrote:
idesof wrote:Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


And that is obviously based on your deep knowledge of the flight control systems of the F-35 (or any other modern generation aircraft?)

Look at other F-35 photos, look at F-22 in flight photos, look at Typhoon photos, look at Rafale photos - modern flight controls DO move assymetrically - tailplanes and flaperons. Perhaps there was a problem, I don't know, I wasn't there, but it is a huge jump to make based on a couple of pictures which show a normal condition.

I hate to have to put it this way, because I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but Idesof, you're a moron. If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in your own little dream world.

idesof wrote:Like it or not, this is the way journalism works.

Well thank you for that little gem of knowledge. By the way, your editor from the Enquirer called and said that it's still not "yellow" enough for them, and that if you can add some aliens into the story it's on the cover.

Mike
Phantom Productions Aviation Photography and Media Services


Of course they move asymetrically. But do they stay in that condition once the airplane is on the ground? Notice that they remain in the same asymetric attitude in the pictures of the aircraft on the ground. Also, had it been a problem with the brakes running hot, why was the aircraft not doused, which would have been SOP if there was any concern of ignition?

As for being a moron, if it pleases you to think so. Guess who was the first to suggest that the F-22 had an issue with the International Date Line when it first tried to deploy to Okinawa? Guess who first said that Maj. Gilbert made a tragic mistake while strafing a ground target, which got him killed? Guess who was the only person on this board to forcefully call for Rumsfeld's resignation, much to the chagrin of those who cannot countenance opposition to what they like to term "patriotism"? Of course, I may not be popular for it, but I am not trying to win any popularity contests.

Bottom line is, if the F-35 prototype has had a major malfunction, as is apparently the case, the public has a right to know, and it will know. LM public relaions will be getting a few phone calls, and they will provide answers. So far the mainstream media hasn't touched this, because obviously it is oblivious. But no more. Time to contact the AP...
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