Future F-35 units

F-35 unit & base selection, delivery, activation
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Jon

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Unread post16 May 2015, 03:16

Of the USAF, who's setting up to receive the F-35 next?

I'm guessing the 16th Weapons Squadron will get a few more, but of new squadrons my guess is the 34th FS.
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Unread post31 Jul 2015, 20:58

From formal complete USMC IOC declaration text quote at USNI News:
Marines Declare Initial Operational Capability on F-35B Joint Strike Fighter
31 Jul 2015 Megan Eckstein

"...VMFA-121’s transition will be followed by Marine Attack Squadron 211 (VMA-211), an AV-8B squadron, which is scheduled to transition to the F-35B in fiscal year 2016. In 2018, Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 122 (VMFA-122), an F-18 Hornet squadron, will conduct its transition."

Source: http://news.usni.org/2015/07/31/marines ... ke-fighter
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Unread post13 Aug 2015, 16:02

The USMC must have a recent website page with this info - anyway here it is from FG.
Marines pushing forward with F-35 conversion after IOC
13 Aug 2015 James Drew

"...To date, the Marine Corps has trained and qualified upwards of 50 F-35B pilots and about 500 maintenance personnel. The first combat squadron, VMFA-121, was declared operational on 31 July, with the next unit, VMA-211 – which currently flies Harriers – to receive its first F-35 in 2016.

The first Hornet squadron to transition will be VMFA-122 based at MCAS Beaufort in South Carolina. That squadron is being stood up about one year earlier than planned due to the purchase of six additional F-35Bs to replace F/A-18s destroyed in combat. [AFAIK the 'six aircraft destroyed' were HARRIERS! WTF?]

Davis says the Marine Corps is moving away from single-purpose aircraft to multi-mission platforms, and the F-35’s upgrade to Block 3F in 2017 will allow it to carry about 1,360kg (3,000lb) more ordnance than the F/A-18. Block 3F will allow the F-35 to carry external weapons."

GRAPHIC: http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/geta ... emid=63183

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... oc-415678/
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Unread post27 Sep 2015, 14:17

Why tha C variant squadrons will receive only 10 while the B variant squadron will receive 16 aircrafts ?? And why some late transition B variant squadrons will also receive only 10 aircrafts ?
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Unread post27 Sep 2015, 16:27

What should it be according to you then?
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Unread post27 Sep 2015, 18:38

spazsinbad wrote:What should it be according to you then?

I don't know you tell me
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Unread post27 Sep 2015, 18:51

Mehicano Stand Off
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Unread post27 Sep 2015, 19:30

spazsinbad wrote:Mehicano Stand Off

No kidding for real .. Why the numbers are different between squadrons ?
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Unread post28 Sep 2015, 08:49

Just a guess, but perhaps due to the amphibious nature of B squadrons, some can be stationed at shore, some at sea (when deployed) and remained under the same command? Meanwhile, on carriers, if you want X amount of squadrons on the ship and/or Y amount of aircraft, perhaps they can't be divided into 16s evenly.
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Unread post28 Sep 2015, 17:27

oldiaf wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Mehicano Stand Off

No kidding for real .. Why the numbers are different between squadrons ?


The number of squadrons in any air wing AF or Navy is determined by mission/sortie generation requirements and deployment structures. Air Force squadrons are typically 12-24 aircraft for a base deployment with 3 or 4 sq per wing. These are simply mission evolutions of 2 ship 4 ship flights into larger sortie packages. 12 is a good number for such decisions as it is flexible, available for 2/4/8/12/24 etc. ship sortie packages.

For a Nimitz class carrier there are only so many parking places/hanger spots. But the missions are many - fleet defense, fighter attack, ASW and Sea surface attack, Electronic Attack(EW), Surveillance (AEW), etc. The blends (percentage) of types is developed through decades of experience. This has resulted in Fighter Attack squadrons of 10-12. The Marine "C"'s are totally dedicated to supporting the Carriers as a deployed squadron. That is why the C squadrons are 10 aircraft.

The "B"'s are more typical squadrons, in that they generally end up at a deployment base. Such deployed packages also include more than the aircraft. Fuel trucks, starter carts, maintenance equipment. What has evolved for the Amphibious deployment units, such as on an LHA ship, with trucks etc. in the garage space is 16 aircraft. These 16 are nothing more than the "closest to 24" number that balances the entire deployment package/carry space. Included in this calculation is even such things as, "how many C-130 sorties does it take to get the squadron's equipment to a remote base in Afghanistan?" That's where the number 16 came from.

Two totally different deployment environments, and thus two different numbers.

BP

PS In recent years especially, such things as cost ("I'd like 12 but that cost too much so 10 will save me 8 aircraft costs over 4 squadrons and we can still have 4 sqs available"), performance (We can put as many bombs on 4 of these as it took 6 of the old planes to carry"), and maintenance availability performance. ("We need 50 of these hangar queens just to have two available that can fly!") It's all about sortie generation, availability and requirements.
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Unread post28 Sep 2015, 21:46

blindpilot wrote:
oldiaf wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Mehicano Stand Off

No kidding for real .. Why the numbers are different between squadrons ?


The number of squadrons in any air wing AF or Navy is determined by mission/sortie generation requirements and deployment structures. Air Force squadrons are typically 12-24 aircraft for a base deployment with 3 or 4 sq per wing. These are simply mission evolutions of 2 ship 4 ship flights into larger sortie packages. 12 is a good number for such decisions as it is flexible, available for 2/4/8/12/24 etc. ship sortie packages.

For a Nimitz class carrier there are only so many parking places/hanger spots. But the missions are many - fleet defense, fighter attack, ASW and Sea surface attack, Electronic Attack(EW), Surveillance (AEW), etc. The blends (percentage) of types is developed through decades of experience. This has resulted in Fighter Attack squadrons of 10-12. The Marine "C"'s are totally dedicated to supporting the Carriers as a deployed squadron. That is why the C squadrons are 10 aircraft.

The "B"'s are more typical squadrons, in that they generally end up at a deployment base. Such deployed packages also include more than the aircraft. Fuel trucks, starter carts, maintenance equipment. What has evolved for the Amphibious deployment units, such as on an LHA ship, with trucks etc. in the garage space is 16 aircraft. These 16 are nothing more than the "closest to 24" number that balances the entire deployment package/carry space. Included in this calculation is even such things as, "how many C-130 sorties does it take to get the squadron's equipment to a remote base in Afghanistan?" That's where the number 16 came from.

Two totally different deployment environments, and thus two different numbers.

BP

PS In recent years especially, such things as cost ("I'd like 12 but that cost too much so 10 will save me 8 aircraft costs over 4 squadrons and we can still have 4 sqs available"), performance (We can put as many bombs on 4 of these as it took 6 of the old planes to carry"), and maintenance availability performance. ("We need 50 of these hangar queens just to have two available that can fly!") It's all about sortie generation, availability and requirements.

So regarding B variant ... Its a cost issue after all
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Unread post29 Sep 2015, 00:36

oldiaf wrote:So regarding B variant ... Its a cost issue after all


NO!

It is the mix of aircraft and support equipment associated with the deployment carry capability. For example the space in an LHA ship. The total force package is examined together. The units fit the deployment carry resources and missions and sortie packages flow from and determine that amount. This includes even the question of how many "pilot" bunks are there on a ship if we don't dump the tanks and tank crews into the sea? It is not a question of cost, but total unit mission balance.

Some Aircraft Carrier squadrons "might" be cost related, but not totally. Even there, "10 vs 12", it is also what can 10 of the new aircraft do compared to more(12) of the old units that had less capability.

BP
Last edited by blindpilot on 29 Sep 2015, 01:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post29 Sep 2015, 01:04

I am convinced that many small countries and detached observers have no clue what it takes to maintain a mission capable unit. They seem to think you can buy 12 aircraft, train two mechanics and a pilot and call it a day.

The US as the fully self sufficient military has to deal with all of the real questions of what it takes.

That includes how many aircraft are needed at Luke AFB to train the other countries' pilots. Those aircraft are not available for deployment. They are being flown by the student pilots, including those from the country with 12 aircraft! Thankfully responsible allies like UK, Australia, Netherlands et al recognize this and buy a couple aircraft to support the flights at Luke for example. But even with them, they don't have the many many other overhead issues, such as training airspace, hangar maintenance space etc. etc. that also makes a difference.

Once the operational tempo increases, such issues become even more extreme. Numbers are operationally determined, not by the pride of some tin horn dictator's wish to have some fast jets.

When such things (operational tempo, scheduled maintenance) get out of hand, you end up with such things as the time I flew 165 hours in ten days, and some of that was with "broken" aircraft. Some of those "broken" things can get ugly... Playing russian roulette with a bad gage day after day, ended up being a shelled engine for me etc. etc.

The number of aircraft in a unit is not determined by how pretty they line up on the ramp, or how many you can afford to park there.

BP

PS (Full disclosure) I was the point action officer (local project manager) for disbanding one combat unit at a base, redeploying those aircraft/assets and restructuring base support, and constructing facilities for an incoming replacement unit of a totally different type, and all the weapons and personnel associated with the changeover. It was trickier than juggling three chainsaws. :)
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Unread post29 Sep 2015, 04:53

oldiaf wrote:Why tha C variant squadrons will receive only 10 while the B variant squadron will receive 16 aircrafts ?? And why some late transition B variant squadrons will also receive only 10 aircrafts ?


USN Fighter Squadrons usually operate between 10-12 Aircraft. Which, explains why F-35C will have 10 aircraft. As for the USMC F-35B Squadrons. Some will have 10 Aircraft and some 16. I assume the ones with 16 are units that deploy to Amphibious Assault Ships. Which, don't operate full squadrons but Detachments of 6 aircraft. In short 10 aircraft will be land based and 6 will sometime deploy as Detachments at sea..........Which, is why they have 16 instead on 10 or at least that is my understanding.
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Unread post29 Sep 2015, 05:10

Very enlightening BP... thanks.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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