Dutch Gorillas train with 58th FS at Eglin AFB

F-35 unit & base selection, delivery, activation
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by spazsinbad » 25 Dec 2014, 06:27

DUTCH GORILLAS
Jan 2015 Arnaud Boxman & Kees van der Mark; Air International Vol.88 No.1

"Arnaud Boxman and Kees van der Mark spoke with Dutch pilots and technicians at Eglin Air Force Base about the preparations being made to participate in the tri-national F-35 Operational Test and Evaluation programme....

...While at Eglin, the RNLAF jets and personnel are integrated into the 58th FS ‘Gorillas’....

...As an LRIP 3 aircraft, AN-01 was delivered with Block 1B software, whereas AN-02 had the Block 2A version installed when delivered. Both versions differ in many aspects, as Col De Smit explained: “The G limit of the Block 1B aircraft is a bit more restricted than in the 2A version,” he said. “Furthermore, almost all sensors can be used in the 2A, which is not the case in the 1B variant. Therefore, the start-up procedures for both versions differ.”

In February 2014, AN-01 entered a concurrency modifications programme with the Ogden Air Logistics Complex at Hill Air Force Base, Utah. It returned to Eglin in mid-June. Next, AN-02 entered the modification programme in July and was expected back at Eglin in November. Finally, AN-01 will be brought to Block 2B software standard in mid-December. The second aircraft relocates to Edwards towards the end of December, still with Block 2A software fitted – it will be modified to 2B standard in early 2015. When delivered, AN-02 was already fully instrumented, including additional, orange-coloured wiring used for test purposes. This jet is likely to stay the RNLAF’s dedicated test aircraft, also after 2019. For its participation in the OT&E, the first aircraft will also be instrumented....

...Learning to Fly the F-35A
“For experienced fighter pilots, converting to the F-35 only takes a couple of months,” according to Col De Smit. “The syllabus is still constrained, due to the Block 1B and 2A software versions and the related flight envelope limitations of the aircraft.”

When the 26th and final F-35A was delivered to the 58th FS at Eglin on May 28, 2014, nine aircraft had Block 1B software fitted and 17 had Block 2A. “In their current versions, the jets are not able to fly all missions yet,” said De Smit. “But they will gain a lot more capabilities when future software blocks become available. Because of the constraints, we do not fly BFM [basic fighter manoeuvres] and ACM [air combat manoeuvring] missions yet, and we perform no weapon deliveries either. The use of avionics is also limited for the time being.”

Pilot training at Eglin starts with five weeks of academic classes in the Academic Training Centre (ATC), with the aid of interactive courseware, electronically mediated lectures and a pilot training aid. Next are four weeks of device training, with a single session in the ejection seat maintenance trainer and 18 rides in the 360° dome full mission simulator (FMS), four of which are located in the ATC.

“The FMS is very representative of the real jet in many respects, much more so than the F-16 unit level trainers at our squadrons,” said Col De Smit. “Of course the FMS has to provide very realistic training, because you cannot fly with an IP in the backseat since there is no dual seat version of the F-35. In the FMS, you learn to fly the aircraft and get to know the landing, emergency and instrument procedures. Due to the high quality of the simulator training, my step from my last FMS ride to flying the real jet for the first time was a very small one. I would even say that the aircraft is easier to fly than the simulator, due to the feedback you get when flying.

“Being this well prepared, I experienced no surprises whatsoever during my first flight. I found it relatively easy to convert from the F-16 to the F-35. Because both are Lockheed Martin products, there are many similarities between the two types. When comparing performance, I would say that the F-35 turns like an F-16 with pylon tanks; but it climbs, descends & accelerates like a clean F-16. The power of the aircraft is really impressive. The Generation II helmet is also phenomenal. It is very stable when moving your head and much more comfortable than the JHMCS [Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System] helmet we use in the F-16.”

Six Sorties
In the training syllabus the Dutch pilots went through, it takes no more than six sorties in the F-35A to finish the conversion. These are usually flown in three weeks. “We start with general flying, local procedures and pattern flying, and add instrument flying in the second and third sortie,” said Col De Smit. “After that, it is time for more mission-related trips: the fourth sortie focuses on air-to-air, the fifth on air-to-ground missions. The latter includes engaging ground targets using the aircraft’s tracking system, as well as practicing formation approaches. The final sortie is a check ride. All six sorties are flown together with an instruction pilot, who flies a second jet as your wingman.”

Initially, there was also a taxi ride between the simulator missions and the first sortie in the real jet. This was done to familiarise the pilot with the procedures, including start-up, taxiing and shut-down. But the taxi ride was recently cancelled from the syllabus, because in the end it did not seem to add much. “It was rather disappointing to taxi to the runway, only to return to the flight line without taking off that day,” according to Col De Smit.

Cooperation
It did not take long for Maj Vijge to become familiar with the F-35. “I flew ten sorties in February as part of my IP and continuation training. By March, I felt really comfortable in the cockpit. Flying the F-35 became a routine, I now recognize the aircraft’s behaviour and sounds, and react to them automatically. I even tend to forget how things worked in the F-16. For me, these are indications that the jet has been designed very well. This also applies to the complete F-35 training system, if you ask me.”...

...according to Col De Smit. “Capability-wise, we make a huge step from the F-16 to our first fifth generation jet. Participating in the OT&E gives us the chance to prepare its service introduction thoroughly. Once we reach the operational capability status with the F-35, we want to be ready to fly complex missions during out-of-area operations, and be able to manage all related maintenance and logistical aspects. This approach enables us to reach that level of preparation. Of course there will be issues left that we have to deal with once we operate the F-35 in the Netherlands – for instance, how to interact with our fighter controllers.”...

...as Col De Smit concluded: “We are now learning to crawl. Once we fly the Block 2B jet we walk, and with the Block 3F configured aircraft we will be running.”

F-35 OT&E DETAILS
The tri-national initial OT&E programme at Edwards Air Force Base officially starts on January 1, 2015, with Block 2B software tests and evaluation carried out in 2015/2016. In the course of 2016, the F-35s go through software and concurrency modifications, before the second part of the OT&E, dedicated to the Block 3F software standard, is held in 2017/2018. The OT&E programme is expected to run until 2019, when the evaluation report will be finalised.

At Edwards, the Joint Operational Test Team (JOTT) will eventually have 23 F-35s at its disposal. Within the JOTT, each of the five participating air arms operates the test aircraft in its own unit. The six US Air Force F-35As are assigned to the 31st Test and Evaluation Squadron, and the two RNLAF F-35As to 323 Test, Evaluation and Standardisation Squadron. Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22 (VMX-22) ‘Argonauts’ will have six F-35Bs available while two, and later three, F-35Bs from the UK will be operated by the RAF’s No.17 Test and Evaluation Squadron. Finally, six US Navy F-35Cs are scheduled to join the rest of the aircraft at Edwards for the Block 3F test phase in 2017/2018. At Edwards, the US Navy jets will operate within a detachment from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 9 (VX-9) ‘Vampires’ based at Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake, California.

Throughout the F-35 OT&E, an estimated 2,200 test sorties will be flown from Edwards, as well as 10,000 sorties to develop tactical and training procedures, and a further 700 or so support sorties. The OT&E will include 36 missile firings, 120 weapon drops and the use of 22,000 25mm rounds. The OT&E will also require numerous rides in a full mission simulator – not so much to train the pilots but to establish whether the F-35A is really capable of flying complex missions.

Although Edwards will act as the primary base during the OT&E, there will also be 12 deployments to aircraft carriers, amphibious ships and other airfields. The latter include Alpena Air National Guard Base (ANGB), Michigan; Volk Field ANGB, Wisconsin; Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona; Naval Air Station Lemoore; California; and Duke Field, Florida. Primary range to be used is the Nevada Test and Training Range."

Source: Air International Vol.88 No.1 January 2015
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by spazsinbad » 26 Nov 2015, 01:37

Minister flies with Dutch F-35's [via Google Translate]
25 Nov 2015 Newsflash

"Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert yesterday welcomed a special way by the Dutch F-35 detachment in America. When approaching from Edwards Air Force Base at full moon loomed the two Dutch F-35 fighter aircraft on to the plane with the minister on both sides to guide the landing.

Both Dutch pilots had just made a night flight from the US Air Force base in California. This is since January, the home of the first two Dutch F-35's. Edwards Air Force Base is the largest US test basis and provides the pilots unprecedented test opportunities. The detachment has the maintenance organization has since incorporated and refined. Meanwhile, the 37 soldiers are involved in the operational testing phase.

Practice Tests
In this phase, viewed in the practice or the weapons system meets the Dutch requirements. The four pilots make this full flight hours. The minister was briefed on the progress and concerns. This was done by the American commander of the operational test phase, Major General Matthew Molloy and the colonel Bert Smit, commander of the Dutch detachment.

Dedication
"This is very hard and with great dedication worked on the future of the Air Force. The developments to let us see that the fighter is vital to our security. The F-35 gives us the decades capabilities that protect as effectively as possible" , said the minister.

Testing armament
The detachment also preparing to test the weaponry early next year. Also worked another milestone which takes place mid-2016: the (temporary) arrival of the first F-35 to the Netherlands. Netherlands can become acquainted with the unit, in anticipation of the definitive arrival of the F-35 in 2019.

Support ground troops
After viewing the facilities, followed the minister to conclude close to starting the two Dutch F-001 and F-002. The aircraft were take-off for training a close air support mission. It is provided air support to ground troops close to the enemy. Afterwards escorted one of the boxes the delegation at a setting sun reflects off the Californian sky."

ORIGINAL: https://www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/ ... dse-f-35-s

Source: https://translate.google.com.au/transla ... edit-text=


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by hornetfinn » 08 Dec 2015, 13:21

spazsinbad wrote:
DUTCH GORILLAS
Jan 2015 Arnaud Boxman & Kees van der Mark; Air International Vol.88 No.1

“Being this well prepared, I experienced no surprises whatsoever during my first flight. I found it relatively easy to convert from the F-16 to the F-35. Because both are Lockheed Martin products, there are many similarities between the two types. When comparing performance, I would say that the F-35 turns like an F-16 with pylon tanks; but it climbs, descends & accelerates like a clean F-16. The power of the aircraft is really impressive. The Generation II helmet is also phenomenal. It is very stable when moving your head and much more comfortable than the JHMCS [Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System] helmet we use in the F-16.”


I wonder if the turn performance feels like this because F-35 G-limit is restricted to lower limit than it will be in Block 3F?


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by mixelflick » 08 Dec 2015, 13:45

If this is the true capability of the F-35 (one would hope not), I'd call that for sure a disappointment (turns like an F-16 with 2 tanks). You can argue it should never get to the merge, but you can't argue it'll have the 9x slaved to a helmet mounted site. Oh, I know you can hang 2 9x's underwing, but then I'd imagine you're paying a stealth penalty. The one saving grace is the situational awareness in a furball. If quickly and easily detecting the enemy is a forte', I'd say it may spell the difference. Then again, the F-35 is quite different visually than any Flanker/Mig-29/33/35 derivative. Not going to take much, in order for an axis power pilot to ID it as a "bad guy". Of course, the opposite is also true.

I'm sorry, but even matching the turn performance of a clean F-16 seems like a disappointment. The onus is on LM on this one, as they should be doing all they can to demonstrate how the F-35 can be an overwhelming success in the merge.

Until the F-35 proves itself in a dogfight vs. another 5th gen (or even a 4++ gen), it'll remain "suspect"...


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by Dragon029 » 08 Dec 2015, 14:58

mixelflick wrote:Oh, I know you can hang 2 9x's underwing, but then I'd imagine you're paying a stealth penalty.


ASRAAMs perform LOAL as well and are internally stored on British (and whoever else wants to use them) F-35s.

Not going to take much, in order for an axis power pilot to ID it as a "bad guy". Of course, the opposite is also true.


The biggest issue in SA is finding and tracking the plane in the first place; if you're close enough to a jet that you can visually identify it (and you're not already 99% sure of it's identity via other means) you have relatively no SA.

I'm sorry, but even matching the turn performance of a clean F-16 seems like a disappointment.


How so? The F-16 has one of the highest sustained turn rates of any fighter and a massive T:W when clean (>1.1).

The onus is on LM on this one, as they should be doing all they can to demonstrate how the F-35 can be an overwhelming success in the merge.


Why? That's never been an objective for the F-35.

Until the F-35 proves itself in a dogfight vs. another 5th gen (or even a 4++ gen), it'll remain "suspect"...


Even after it does it'll remain "suspect"; some people will never be pleased. The real metrics that should be getting looked at are what kill:loss ratios it's getting in BVR and WVR missile combat; the stuff that's made up >90% of the past ~500 air-to-air kills made since 1980.


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by gideonic » 08 Dec 2015, 15:35

mixelflick wrote:I'm sorry, but even matching the turn performance of a clean F-16 seems like a disappointment.

IMO this requirement is ridiculous and will never happen. the Turn Rate of a clean (or lightly loaded) F-16 is second only to F-22 (and probably Eurofighter, depending how high and fast you are flying). Su-3x are certainly more to the right on the following chart's X-axis (T/W) but doubtfully fair any better on the Y-axis (Turn Rate).

The primary mission of F-35 is SEAD in a highly contested environment, with considerable internal weapons and fuel load. It can also carry more fuel internally than a F-22! Yet you want it to also turn like a clean F-16 with a weapons load and all of that fuel mentioned earlier ?

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by mor10 » 08 Dec 2015, 16:06

mixelflick wrote:If this is the true capability of the F-35 (one would hope not), I'd call that for sure a disappointment (turns like an F-16 with 2 tanks).


Personally I was please to see this since turning and maintaining energy is what the F-16 is good at. Not a bad goal post at all to aim for.

mixelflick wrote:You can argue it should never get to the merge, but you can't argue it'll have the 9x slaved to a helmet mounted site. Oh, I know you can hang 2 9x's underwing, but then I'd imagine you're paying a stealth penalty.


When in the merge the stealth advantage is reduced drastically, so the addition of the two AIM-9's on the wing is not that critical. However, it does have 2-4 AIM-120 slaved to the helmet. I don't know of anybody else that has spherical sensor coverage, but relies on the radar to launch a radar tracking weapon (which may not gain lock very well on the F-35 anyway).

mixelflick wrote:The one saving grace is the situational awareness in a furball. If quickly and easily detecting the enemy is a forte', I'd say it may spell the difference.


When was the last "furball", as you call it? Over France during the Allied invasion of Europe? Or Perhaps in Korea when fighters were cheap'ish, and inefficient enough for each side to send large numbers to the same target to achieve its goals.

mixelflick wrote:Then again, the F-35 is quite different visually than any Flanker/Mig-29/33/35 derivative. Not going to take much, in order for an axis power pilot to ID it as a "bad guy". Of course, the opposite is also true.


If the F-35 looses a fight because it was visually identified before it was able to end the fight, then something has gone very wrong much earlier.

mixelflick wrote:I'm sorry, but even matching the turn performance of a clean F-16 seems like a disappointment.


I'm afraid you will have to learn to live with disappointment. By the way, what car do you drive? A McLaren MP4-12C Spider or perhaps a Rolls-Royce Phantom Coupe is more you cup of tea?

mixelflick wrote:The onus is on LM on this one, as they should be doing all they can to demonstrate how the F-35 can be an overwhelming success in the merge.


In my opinion LM should demonstrate how the F-35 can make extreme merge capabilities redundant.
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by SpudmanWP » 08 Dec 2015, 17:12

Keep in mind that the AMRAAM has had several updates to improve it's HOBS capabilities. You don't need a 9X or ASRAAM (no datalink) to do WVR in the F-35.
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by cosmicdwarf » 08 Dec 2015, 18:54

Given that the F-16 (clean) sits at the top of what the human body can take as far as G forces go, not being quite there isn't really that much of a problem.


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by hornetfinn » 09 Dec 2015, 12:18

IMO, the pilots are comparing Block 1B and Block 2A F-35A in Dutch F-35s to F-16. Because the rather limited G and AoA available in those F-35s, it might well feel like F-16 with pylon tanks when turning. Things are likely very different with Block 3F+ F-35s. What are the G and AoA limits of F-16 with pylon tanks anyway? I think they might be close to Block 2A limits.


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by mixelflick » 09 Dec 2015, 13:41

My reference to furballs has a more recent reference: The F-15 vs. Mig-25/29 duels in Desert Storm.

If you watch the "Dogfights of Desert Storm" vids, the pilots were pretty clear: Tough to differentiate who was who, and fratricide was at the forefront of many an allied pilots mind. In one event, a pursuing F-15 asked if any of his squadron mates was in afterburner. They weren't, and that's how he determined his target was a Mig-25..

As for the F-35 in the merge, I appreciate your point that if it got to that - something has gone seriously wrong. But if discovered the F-35 can't run like the F-22, and 2-4 AMRAAM's seems like an awful light load. I really, really want to believe AMRAAM has a super high kill rate, but past BVR engagements reveal otherwise. Close in? Much better I'll concede. The question is, what if the BVR shots miss? That many less missiles to use in the merge, or to use for "over the shoulder" shots while (trying) to run away.

My $.05... :)


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by quicksilver » 09 Dec 2015, 13:45

mixelflick wrote:If this is the true capability of the F-35 (one would hope not), I'd call that for sure a disappointment (turns like an F-16 with 2 tanks). You can argue it should never get to the merge, but you can't argue it'll have the 9x slaved to a helmet mounted site. Oh, I know you can hang 2 9x's underwing, but then I'd imagine you're paying a stealth penalty. The one saving grace is the situational awareness in a furball. If quickly and easily detecting the enemy is a forte', I'd say it may spell the difference. Then again, the F-35 is quite different visually than any Flanker/Mig-29/33/35 derivative. Not going to take much, in order for an axis power pilot to ID it as a "bad guy". Of course, the opposite is also true.

I'm sorry, but even matching the turn performance of a clean F-16 seems like a disappointment. The onus is on LM on this one, as they should be doing all they can to demonstrate how the F-35 can be an overwhelming success in the merge.

Until the F-35 proves itself in a dogfight vs. another 5th gen (or even a 4++ gen), it'll remain "suspect"...


"Forum Veteran"... Really?

Do you read to learn or do you just post here?

In case you missed it (for the umpteenth bleeping time by dozens of others), "the F-35 proves itself" in flight test and fleet operations everyday -- everyday, cowboy. All that special sauce, stealthy, sensor-fused 5th Gen hocus-pocus stuff really works.

The only jet in the US inventory that competes with F-35 is...?

(and the answer is)...F-22.


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by quicksilver » 09 Dec 2015, 13:54

mixelflick wrote:My reference to furballs has a more recent reference: The F-15 vs. Mig-25/29 duels in Desert Storm.

If you watch the "Dogfights of Desert Storm" vids, the pilots were pretty clear: Tough to differentiate who was who, and fratricide was at the forefront of many an allied pilots mind. In one event, a pursuing F-15 asked if any of his squadron mates was in afterburner. They weren't, and that's how he determined his target was a Mig-25..

As for the F-35 in the merge, I appreciate your point that if it got to that - something has gone seriously wrong. But if discovered the F-35 can't run like the F-22, and 2-4 AMRAAM's seems like an awful light load. I really, really want to believe AMRAAM has a super high kill rate, but past BVR engagements reveal otherwise. Close in? Much better I'll concede. The question is, what if the BVR shots miss? That many less missiles to use in the merge, or to use for "over the shoulder" shots while (trying) to run away.

My $.05... :)


There were no furballs in DS, but there were jets in close enough proximity to each other that visual ID became important. Those of us who have been in multi-ship, multi-aircraft type visual fights in LFEs can attest to the fact that many aircraft look like many others from different aspects and in the 'tweener visual ranges beyond 3/4 of a mile or so -- particularly when one's head is on a swivel and not staring at just one.


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by spazsinbad » 09 Dec 2015, 13:59

Somewhere in the many endless dogfight threads (why do we need another one here?) there are many references to the FAB F-35 ability separately or together with the COP to keep track of all aircraft within WVR range. Pilots comment that this ability makes life a lot easier. In other aircraft the comment most cited is by an RAAF senior pilot saying that as soon as he follows one bogie in a 4th gen aircraft his knowledge of other bogies goes out that proverbial WINDOW. One is shot down by the unseen bogey most likely. The F-35 together/separately can keep track of all aircraft so that there is no confusion. I'll imagine that one F-35 (perhaps rotating in and out of any potential fight) will keep track of targets to allocate and the software will help out with this also (it points out the most dangerous bogies in the COP Common Operating Picture & may well recommend a pilot course of action if required). There is YATO for those special moments.


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by hornetfinn » 09 Dec 2015, 14:33

mixelflick wrote:My reference to furballs has a more recent reference: The F-15 vs. Mig-25/29 duels in Desert Storm.

If you watch the "Dogfights of Desert Storm" vids, the pilots were pretty clear: Tough to differentiate who was who, and fratricide was at the forefront of many an allied pilots mind. In one event, a pursuing F-15 asked if any of his squadron mates was in afterburner. They weren't, and that's how he determined his target was a Mig-25..

As for the F-35 in the merge, I appreciate your point that if it got to that - something has gone seriously wrong. But if discovered the F-35 can't run like the F-22, and 2-4 AMRAAM's seems like an awful light load. I really, really want to believe AMRAAM has a super high kill rate, but past BVR engagements reveal otherwise. Close in? Much better I'll concede. The question is, what if the BVR shots miss? That many less missiles to use in the merge, or to use for "over the shoulder" shots while (trying) to run away.

My $.05... :)


F-35 has by far more comprehensive and advanced systems to ID targets than F-15s had 25 years ago. Having very advanced AESA, EOTS, DAS, Link 16, MADL and CNI systems all connected to advanced sensor fusion engine will give F-35 ID capabilities that totally dwarf the capabilities F-15s have ever had.

Another thing is that why F-35 can't run away? What potential enemy aircraft can catch F-35 running away while carrying missiles to shoot it down. I think only MiG-25 and MiG-31 have high enough speed advantage to do that and they'd have all kinds of trouble surviving long enough to do that. Even PAK FA don't seem to have that much higher speed, although it remains to be seen. What's the kill probability of said missiles against highly stealthy target with advanced countermeasures systems. Where are all the friendly F-35s and other assets in the situation, are they out of missiles also. IMO, F-35 wouldn't really run away using speed even if it got to that situation. It'd run away using stealth and countermeasures making it very difficult to track and kill.


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