F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 15:55
by marsavian

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 22:43
by swiss
This is also an issue in one of the largest Swiss newspapers. Because of the upcoming evalution

https://translate.google.ch/translate?h ... 70311.html

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 01:13
by spazsinbad
Head for the hills - the sky is falling - death spiral - ohmygawd : https://www.businessinsider.de/the-f-35 ... tes-2019-8

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 02:38
by quicksilver
“...raises questions...”

Oooh, ahhh, hmmm, ughhh, ooh...

:roll:

Raises questions about who actually spends money to sustain this organization (POGO).

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 19:03
by wrightwing
The 3F jets are at or above 80% MC rates. The earlier blocks are all being upgraded to 3F. It's not quite time to drink the kool aid.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 20:23
by swiss
So we talk about old news here.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 00:17
by marauder2048
swiss wrote:So we talk about old news here.


Does any Air Force evaluating a new aircraft concern itself with Operational Test fleet availability?

Range and other test asset availability especially for the more challenging
portions of the test plan pose a much greater constraint.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 03:39
by element1loop
wrightwing wrote:The 3F jets are at or above 80% MC rates.


Got a reference? Not to challenge you as such, I'd just like some meat on that bone.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 03:47
by element1loop
As for DAS "failing frequently", per the pogo write-up, I'm guessing this is fatigue-related from something like vibration, cooling failure, or thermal-stress accrual with age. Else we'd have heard of the failure frequency already and it would have been engineered out of existence in new production.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 08:20
by jacarlsen
The biggest question is, are the pilots getting their hours in the air or not. Counting FMC, PMC and NMC airframes across the entire fleet is really worth nothing. Lets say you have an airforce of 100 airframes. 10 are in for depot maintenance and 10 are in for phased maintenance, that will give maximum 80% possible FMC if you count all 100 airframes. However if you count the 80 available to the flightline, you can get 100% FMC.

Eurofighter problem: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... -fly-72476

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 09:12
by weasel1962
Eglin's getting decent MC rates. ~77%.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... -rate.html

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 17:27
by wrightwing
http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... -Guys.aspx

Last October, then-Defense Secretary Jim Mattis directed the Air Force to increase mission capable rates for the F-22, F-16, and F-35 to at least 80 percent. At the time, the F-35 rate was 54 percent overall, but for 3F aircraft recently off the production line, the rate was better than 80 percent.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 17:28
by wrightwing
https://news.usni.org/2019/04/05/42436

Currently, the F-35A variant used by the Air Force has an availability rate of 61 percent, the F-35B short take-off and vertical landing variant has an availability rate of 64 percent, and the F-35C carrier variant has an availability rate of 84 percent, Winter said.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 20:17
by swiss
marauder2048 wrote:
swiss wrote:So we talk about old news here.


Does any Air Force evaluating a new aircraft concern itself with Operational Test fleet availability?

Range and other test asset availability especially for the more challenging
portions of the test plan pose a much greater constraint.


Agreed.

Problem is. When such news appears, it may influence the vote on the new fighter aircraft. Even if it should only affect the test fleet.

@weasel1962
@wrightwing

Thanks for the links. This figures looks way better. And if we look at the mission capable rates for the SH, its definitely not a specific "F-35 problem". But why is there such huge difference to the Testfleet?

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 20:23
by XanderCrews
swiss wrote:This is also an issue in one of the largest Swiss newspapers. Because of the upcoming evalution

https://translate.google.ch/translate?h ... 70311.html



that stinks. well, anything to pollute the waters? :roll:

Super Hornets are struggling more operationally than F-35s, but oh well.


We are in a funny spot with the F-35. few years back all the "good news" was what people said was cherry picked.

Now its all the bad news that's cherry picked. :mrgreen:

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 20:26
by wrightwing
swiss wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:
swiss wrote:So we talk about old news here.


Does any Air Force evaluating a new aircraft concern itself with Operational Test fleet availability?

Range and other test asset availability especially for the more challenging
portions of the test plan pose a much greater constraint.


Agreed.

Problem is. When such news appears, it may influence the vote on the new fighter aircraft. Even if it should only affect the test fleet.

@weasel1962
@wrightwing

Thanks for the links. This figures looks way better. And if we look at the mission capable rates for the SH, its definitely not a specific "F-35 problem". But why is there such huge difference to the Testfleet?


Different blocks, and supply chain have been the biggest issues. All early block jets are being brought up to 3F, though. This should help improve the overall fleet averages.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 21:46
by swiss
wrightwing wrote:
Different blocks, and supply chain have been the biggest issues. All early block jets are being brought up to 3F, though. This should help improve the overall fleet averages.


Ok. Thanks for your answer.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2019, 01:58
by element1loop

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2019, 09:50
by jacarlsen
Do the early F-35 blocks any bigger mod programs like the early F-16s had with Pacer Loft 1 and 2 or is it just plug and play loading of 3F software?

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:35
by weasel1962
Different plane, different issues. If one looks at the changes from F-16 Blk 1 to Blk 10, clearly those issues aren't replicated in the F-35. The F-35 does have other issues, hence the upgrades from Blk 1A to 2B to 3F today. Those include some minor structural changes (particularly joints).

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 21 Aug 2019, 08:31
by vilters
The more stuff you put in an airframe the lower the MTBF.
Why is that so difficult to understand?

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 21 Aug 2019, 21:43
by marauder2048
vilters wrote:The more stuff you put in an airframe the lower the MTBF.
Why is that so difficult to understand?


On the other hand, the probability of being mission capable for *a* mission is higher.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 22 Aug 2019, 03:37
by wrightwing
vilters wrote:The more stuff you put in an airframe the lower the MTBF.
Why is that so difficult to understand?

That's not the issue. Mixed fleets/blocks, and subcontractors ramping up their spare parts production, (along with ALIS) has been the hold up. All early block jets are scheduled to be brought up to 3F, which should largely eliminate the issues.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 22 Aug 2019, 03:49
by SpudmanWP
Countdown to October 2021 :mrgreen:

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 22 Aug 2019, 20:33
by XanderCrews
vilters wrote:The more stuff you put in an airframe the lower the MTBF.
Why is that so difficult to understand?


explain it. I'm curious

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2019, 11:31
by vilters
wrightwing wrote:
vilters wrote:The more stuff you put in an airframe the lower the MTBF.
Why is that so difficult to understand?

That's not the issue. Mixed fleets/blocks, and subcontractors ramping up their spare parts production, (along with ALIS) has been the hold up. All early block jets are scheduled to be brought up to 3F, which should largely eliminate the issues.


You sound like Boeing. LOL.

They are also trying to fix a hardware issue (failing AOA probes) with a software update on their 737 disaster.
What they should do in the FIRST PLACE is install better AOA probes. AND fix the software.

Re: F-35 Test Fleet Struggling with Low Readiness Rates

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2019, 14:21
by wrightwing
vilters wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
vilters wrote:The more stuff you put in an airframe the lower the MTBF.
Why is that so difficult to understand?

That's not the issue. Mixed fleets/blocks, and subcontractors ramping up their spare parts production, (along with ALIS) has been the hold up. All early block jets are scheduled to be brought up to 3F, which should largely eliminate the issues.


You sound like Boeing. LOL.

They are also trying to fix a hardware issue (failing AOA probes) with a software update on their 737 disaster.
What they should do in the FIRST PLACE is install better AOA probes. AND fix the software.

No, I sound like what the problem is. There is different hardware, etc.... on early block jets. You may be familiar with terms like economies of scale, etc... especially in regard to spare parts inventories, jets being upgraded, etc.....