Greece, Romania, and Poland.

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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madrat

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 01:59

Battle of Vienna all over again, only in a more civil 2019 version.
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mixelflick

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 12:59

I was thinking the same. They seem to be going all in with the F-35, have been a reliable ally and the work ethic is there. LM has to be looking seriously at the possibility, and given its strategic location Poland would be a natural fit.

They clearly see the writing that's on the wall. Makes you wonder why Canada can't...
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doge

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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 18:58

Greece 8)
http://www.ekathimerini.com/245223/arti ... fense-deal
Ex-minister Apostolakis hails US-Greece defense deal
06.10.2019 VASSILIS NEDOS
The extension of a defense agreement between Athens and Washington, signed on Saturday, and increasing the US military presence around the country will help boost Greece’s sense of security and modernize domestic military infrastructure, according to former defense minister Evangelos Apostolakis.
In an interview with Kathimerini’s Sunday edition, Apostolakis, a former chief of the Hellenic National Defense General Staff (GEETHA), said the amendment to the Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement (MDCA) will make it easier for the Americans to deploy ships and use additional military bases in Greece when the need arises.
“Furthermore, they will be able to build or enhance existing infrastructure so it can accommodate more troops,” he said.

Apostolakis said that Greece’s priorities should be reorganizing its military, completing the modernization of its F-16 fighter jets and upgrading its fleet of Meko frigates. But he also saw an opportunity for Greece to join the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, also following Turkey’s exclusion due to its purchase of a Russian missile defense system.

“If we were given an opportunity to quickly join the program… we could then upgrade only part of our F-16s,” he said, adding that Greece could purchase a number of F-35s instead.

Asked about Turkey’s aggression in the Eastern Mediterranean, Apostolakis said, “Turkey’s effort to impose its views and achieve its military objectives is creating problems not only for Greece but for all states” in the region.
He said he regretted that Washington has not pushed Ankara as much as Athens had hoped on the issue. “Because the Americans want to keep Turkey close to them at any cost, the pressure has been lax,” he said. “At the same time, the European Union, for reasons that we all understand, does not wish to enter in direct confrontation with Turkey,” he added.
Although Apostolakis did not rule out the chance of an “incident” in the Aegean, he said it was not in Ankara’s interest to trigger one.

“It would add yet another problem to [Turkey’s] already long list, without [yielding] any substantial benefit.”

https://www.thenationalherald.com/26334 ... nce-plans/
Greece’s Former Defense Chief Lauds US Military Presence Plans
By TNH Staff October 7, 2019
ATHENS – He served the previous ruling Radical Left SYRIZA but former defense chief Evangelos Apostolakis, an Admiral in the Greek Navy, said the extension of a defense agreement with the United States will help make the country more secure and modernize its defenses.
In an interview with Kathimerini’s Sunday edition, Apostolakis, a former chief of the Hellenic National Defense General Staff (GEETHA), said the amendment to the Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement (MDCA) will make it easier for the Americans to deploy ships and use additional military bases in Greece when the need arises.
“Furthermore, they will be able to build or enhance existing infrastructure so it can accommodate more troops,” he said. Ironically, it was the formerly anti-American SYRIZA leader and former Premier Alexis Tsipras who moved to improve relations with the US as Greece was faced with growing Turkish aggression in the Aegean and East Mediterranean.

Apostolakis said that Greece’s priorities should be reorganizing its military, completing the modernization of its F-16 fighter jets and upgrading its fleet of Meko frigates but said there’s an opening now to join the US F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program after Turkey was bounced for buying a Russian-made missile defense system that could compromise the defenses of NATO, to which both countries.

“If we were given an opportunity to quickly join the program… we could then upgrade only part of our F-16s,” he said, adding that Greece could purchase a number of F-35s instead to give Greece an edge over Turkish jets which frequently violate Greek airspace and engage in mock dogfights with responding Greek pilots.

Asked about Turkey’s aggression in the Eastern Mediterranean, Apostolakis said, “Turkey’s effort to impose its views and achieve its military objectives is creating problems not only for Greece but for all states” in the region.
Despite the US aligning itself more closely with Greece, wanting to expand American military presence in the country, he said Turkey could have been pushed more but wasn’t because Washington wants to juggle interests.
“The Americans want to keep Turkey close to them at any cost, the pressure has been lax,” he said. “At the same time, the European Union, for reasons that we all understand, does not wish to enter in direct confrontation with Turkey,” he added.
Although Apostolakis did not rule out the chance of an “incident” in the Aegean, he said it was not in Turkey’s interest to trigger one, fearing the reprisals. “It would add yet another problem to (Turkey’s) already long list, without (yielding) any substantial benefit.”
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doge

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Unread post30 Nov 2019, 19:28

From the WhiteHouse official site. 8)
:shock: Bulgaria gets the F-35! ? :doh: :!: :?: :!: :?: :roll:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... l-meeting/
Remarks by President Trump and Prime Minister Borissov of the Republic of Bulgaria Before Bilateral Meeting
FOREIGN POLICY Issued on: November 25, 2019 Oval Office

PRIME MINISTER BORISSOV: (As interpreted.) The Bulgarians like you so much, and they expect to have the problem with the visas solved — like with Canada.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Ah, okay. Well, we’re going to work on that problem.
I want to just thank the Prime Minister of Bulgaria for being here. It’s an honor to have you at the White House, in the Oval Office. We have meetings coming up in a little while. You have your representatives. I have my representatives. And I think we’re going to have very productive meetings.
They’ve ordered some F-35s and some other things. They buy a lot of military equipment from the United States — the best equipment in the world. And I look forward to our meeting.

PRIME MINISTER BORISSOV: (As interpreted.) We have 3.1 percent of the national — 3.1 percent, instead of 2 —

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Good.

PRIME MINISTER BORISSOV: (As interpreted.) — the membership requirement of NATO.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: That’s very interesting. We’ll have to think about that, right? That’s very good. You should tell that to Germany. (Laughs.) You understand.

PRIME MINISTER BORISSOV: (As interpreted.) You will say it, sir.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, we have a big NATO meeting coming up very soon, as you all know. But we’ve had a very, very good relationship, and now we’re going to formalize some things. We — the relationship we have with Bulgaria has been very strong. Great people.
Okay? Thank you.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post30 Nov 2019, 19:56

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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mixelflick

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Unread post01 Dec 2019, 15:11

That would really be something, Bulgarian F-35's.

As the partner nations get more experience with it, they're ordering even more than what was originally planned. Maybe not in all cases, but it's a VERY good sign. Look at Israel... they're not dumb, they know when they've got a winner.

Lockheed Martin is only getting bigger, which is somehow exciting and scary at the same time. Never did I think they'd be building fighters for the USAF and other branches, but here we are. They're a great company, pay a terrific dividend and are rapidly approaching an area where few US defense contractors have ever ventured - a complete monopoly. Not sure whether that's a good or bad thing. Boeing may be given corporate welfare to continue building SH's and F-15EX's, but this is akin to Mig's position on the world stage IMO (minus its state owned status).

They better get a novel stealth design at least on the drawing boards, because that ship is sailing out of Fort Worth and it doesnt' look like it's coming back..
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post02 Dec 2019, 01:23

mixelflick wrote:Boeing may be given corporate welfare to continue building SH's and F-15EX's, but this is akin to Mig's position on the world stage IMO (minus its state owned status).


The funny thing is that the F-18 and F-15 were originally McDonnell Douglas aircraft. Boeing absorbed them in a merger. I have serious doubts Boeing is going to produce any top end fighters in the future.
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blindpilot

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Unread post02 Dec 2019, 17:34

kimjongnumbaun wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Boeing may be given corporate welfare to continue building SH's and F-15EX's, but this is akin to Mig's position on the world stage IMO (minus its state owned status).


The funny thing is that the F-18 and F-15 were originally McDonnell Douglas aircraft. Boeing absorbed them in a merger. I have serious doubts Boeing is going to produce any top end fighters in the future.


If we are going to nit pick, let's at least get it right.

The design and production resources, plants, engineers, people etc. for the the F-15/18 et al are core St. Louis McDonnell resources. "They" designed and built post WW II, (WW II were parts manufacturers), the Navy jets FH-1 Phantom, F-2H Banshee, F-3H Demon, and Air Force XF-88, and F-101 Voodoo fighters. Then of course the ubiquitous F-4 Phantom II's.

Douglas with whom they merged made DC-3,DC-8 etc. Cargo planes, and attack bombers like SBD Dauntless and A-26 Invader. Aside possibly from Spaz's very solid A-4 Skyhawk design, they didn't do "fighters." So that means McDonnell from St. Louis, not "McDonnell Douglas" did the fighter work (and still does) from the same core business element in St. Louis.

So if Boeing is poo-pooed, so should McDonnell Douglas. We're talking about the same company/heritage as the old carrier Banshee guys. And as seen in the Super Hornet obsession by the US Navy, it's the core "aircraft carrier fighter jet" guys. Boeing HQ just writes the paychecks, just like McDonnell Douglas HQ did before.

FWIW,
BP

PS Along these lines the F-22/35 isn't Lockheed either. It's the Dallas Ft Worth General Dynamics group. And Lockheed doesn't do Space/Missile work either. That's Martin Marietta well ...actually Martin (see Titan II missiles) ... Yeah ... mergers... :D :D
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quicksilver

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Unread post02 Dec 2019, 17:54

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outlaw162

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Unread post03 Dec 2019, 00:39

Aside possibly from Spaz's very solid A-4 Skyhawk design, they didn't do "fighters."


Navy and Marine F3D Skyknights (later F-10) shot down some MiGs....at night. :shock: More than any F-101 or F3H.

Navy and Marine F4D Skyray was a pretty solid 'fighter', both carrier and land based. First supersonic carrier based 'fighter'. Although the USN eventually preferred the Fury. Not McDonnell, North American. :D

Skyraider, though not technically a 'fighter', was a helluva fighter.....one CMH earned.

Let's be fair.
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lbk000

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Unread post05 Dec 2019, 03:40

The Hornet pedigree goes even further back to Northrop (funnily enough Ed Heinemann was also a Douglas acquisition from Northrop).
And General Dynamics was once Convair -- not exactly "fighter people".

Aside from that though BP's right, it's the individuals and their experience that count. It doesn't matter the brand you acquire if you can't keep the people that came with it.

You notice though how no company really survived it's teen series fighter? GD was gone after the F-16, McD was done after the F-15, and Grumman put its fighter days behind it after the F-14.
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