India and the F-35?

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

sunstersun

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 154
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 06:50

Unread post06 Apr 2018, 14:08

Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4153
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post07 Apr 2018, 16:04

Although it's a long shot, I think India in the end will opt for the F-35...

They can talk all day about developing an indigenous stealth design, but c'mon.. That takes tons of money (they don't have), expertise (they might have, if the US helps them) but more importantly - time. The Russians are almost a decade along with the SU-57 and.... it going a notch above nowhere fast. Building 5th gen birds isn't easy, and it sure ain't fast. By the time they got an indigenous design in service the Chinese will have thousands of J-31's and have at least a few hundred J-20's.

Plus, you need only look at Tejas for how their latest domestic program turned out.

The FGFA is dead. Eurocanards and updated F-16's and 18's aren't cutting it either. New Flankers? Nice to have but they'll be at a disadvantage vs. Chinese stealth birds too. The F-35 is available TODAY, will likely be around $85 million/copy by the time they pull the trigger and there's a carrier variant too.

The ONLY choice is the F-35 IMO. It'll be cheaper than the competition, better all around and by that time - a mature design, probably with more powerful engines and weapons...
Offline

hythelday

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 624
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:43
  • Location: Estonia

Unread post08 Apr 2018, 02:03

mixelflick wrote:Although it's a long shot, I think India in the end will opt for the F-35...

They can talk all day about developing an indigenous stealth design, but c'mon.. That takes tons of money (they don't have), expertise (they might have, if the US helps them) but more importantly - time. The Russians are almost a decade along with the SU-57 and.... it going a notch above nowhere fast. Building 5th gen birds isn't easy, and it sure ain't fast. By the time they got an indigenous design in service the Chinese will have thousands of J-31's and have at least a few hundred J-20's.

Plus, you need only look at Tejas for how their latest domestic program turned out.

The FGFA is dead. Eurocanards and updated F-16's and 18's aren't cutting it either. New Flankers? Nice to have but they'll be at a disadvantage vs. Chinese stealth birds too. The F-35 is available TODAY, will likely be around $85 million/copy by the time they pull the trigger and there's a carrier variant too.

The ONLY choice is the F-35 IMO. It'll be cheaper than the competition, better all around and by that time - a mature design, probably with more powerful engines and weapons...


Every airforce in the world should get an F-35, that's a fact. Whether it could is a different story.

It's not about "if?" regarding India, it's "how?" they would get it.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6890
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post09 Apr 2018, 02:01

mixelflick wrote:Although it's a long shot, I think India in the end will opt for the F-35...

They can talk all day about developing an indigenous stealth design, but c'mon.. That takes tons of money (they don't have), expertise (they might have, if the US helps them) but more importantly - time. The Russians are almost a decade along with the SU-57 and.... it going a notch above nowhere fast. Building 5th gen birds isn't easy, and it sure ain't fast. By the time they got an indigenous design in service the Chinese will have thousands of J-31's and have at least a few hundred J-20's.

Plus, you need only look at Tejas for how their latest domestic program turned out.

The FGFA is dead. Eurocanards and updated F-16's and 18's aren't cutting it either. New Flankers? Nice to have but they'll be at a disadvantage vs. Chinese stealth birds too. The F-35 is available TODAY, will likely be around $85 million/copy by the time they pull the trigger and there's a carrier variant too.

The ONLY choice is the F-35 IMO. It'll be cheaper than the competition, better all around and by that time - a mature design, probably with more powerful engines and weapons...



I've said all along that the F-35 is the only real viable option for India. That said, I don't see the US allowing India to produce the F-35 at this stage...

So, most likely scenario would be. That India would produce a hundred or so F-16's short-term. While, acquiring a modest number of F-35's as part of a package deal. Then when production is finished with the F-16 order. The US would consider allowing India to produce the F-35 under license.

Note: Such a deal could also include help with the development of the AMCA.
Offline

sunstersun

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 154
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 06:50

Unread post09 Apr 2018, 05:05

Such natural partners, shame Indian bureaucracy gets in the way. Fair to India USA has messed up a lot.

India acquiring would be the equivalent of Real Madrid acquiring Ronaldo.
Offline

talkitron

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 503
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 10:55

Unread post20 Apr 2018, 14:03

Here is a nice article on the cancellation of India’s purchase of an indigenized variant of the Su-57. The so-called FGFA program is likely cancelled and the article speculates the F-35 is in India’s future.

https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/04 ... d.html?m=1
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7722
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post20 Apr 2018, 14:06

India just dodged a bullet.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24750
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post20 Apr 2018, 15:54

:doh: One door closes and another door closes. :wtf: Mebbe. Who NOSE!? This is INDIA goldarnit! Anything can happen.
Admiral: Don't Sanction India for Buying Russian 'F-35 Killer' Missiles
20 Apr 2018 Richard Sisk

"Adm. Phil Davidson, the nominee to take over U.S. Pacific Command, has warned against sanctioning India for buying Russian arms that could include a proposed $6 billion deal for S-400 Triumf anti-air missiles billed as "F-35 killers" by Moscow.

The growing strategic partnership between the U.S. and India to counter China should take precedence over sanctions, Davidson said in written responses to questions ahead of his Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC) confirmation hearing Tuesday. Davidson noted his "concern for our defense relationships in the Indo-Pacific with countries such as India, Vietnam, and Indonesia."...

...The proposed S-400 deal could potentially make India liable under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) signed by President Donald Trump last August. The Act targeted Russia for its interference in the 2016 presidential elections and its aggression in Crimea and Ukraine. The Act required the president to sanction any country that strikes "highly-significant" agreements with Russia's defense industry....

...The U.S. also faces a dilemma on whether to impose sanctions on NATO ally Turkey for its own estimated $2.5 billion deal to purchase S-400s from Russia. Putin was in Ankara earlier this month to seal the deal with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Several other nations, including Iraq, have expressed interest in acquiring the S-400s rather than the U.S. Patriot surface-to-air missile defense system made by Raytheon. The interest in the S-400s has been heightened by the perceived failure of the U.S. Patriot systems to protect the Saudi Arabian capital of Riyadh against missile launches by Houthi rebels in Yemen."

Source: https://www.military.com/defensetech/20 ... siles.html
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2763
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post20 Apr 2018, 16:05

talkitron wrote:Here is a nice article on the cancellation of India’s purchase of an indigenized variant of the Su-57. The so-called FGFA program is likely cancelled and the article speculates the F-35 is in India’s future.

https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/04 ... d.html?m=1


Oops for the Su-57/FGFA... :devil:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
Offline

sunstersun

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 154
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 06:50

Unread post20 Apr 2018, 22:19

lol @ russia
Offline

juretrn

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 438
  • Joined: 31 Jul 2016, 01:09
  • Location: Slovenia

Unread post20 Apr 2018, 22:56

Given Indian experiences with "reliability" of MiG-29K and Su-30MKI I must say I'm not surprised.

Pictured below: a week's supply of spare parts for a squadron of Su-57.
Image
Russia stronk
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 849
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post21 Apr 2018, 07:10

juretrn wrote:Given Indian experiences with "reliability" of MiG-29K and Su-30MKI I must say I'm not surprised.

Pictured below: a week's supply of spare parts for a squadron of Su-57.
Image



Make that 2 container ships lol!
Offline

vilters

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1154
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2009, 00:16

Unread post22 Apr 2018, 00:11

What? Don't they have a Superglue company?

A hammer, a screwdriver, gallons of superglue, and 2 new engines/flight hr.

And in those containers?
The "smart" Russians are selling "air" in those containers so the stupid Indians can pump it in the tires.
LOL.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4153
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post22 Apr 2018, 18:39

talkitron wrote:Here is a nice article on the cancellation of India’s purchase of an indigenized variant of the Su-57. The so-called FGFA program is likely cancelled and the article speculates the F-35 is in India’s future.

https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/04 ... d.html?m=1


Wow. Finally...

Stick a fork in SU-57, it's done. Without funding, it's doubtful it'll proceed past the 12 pre-production aircraft now earmarked for service. Without that Indian $, they'll either have to find a new partner (UAE?) or forgoe a true stealth aircraft altogether.

Methinks the SU-57 will just wind up being the ultimate expression of the Flanker..
Offline

talkitron

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 503
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 10:55

Unread post23 Apr 2018, 04:50

mixelflick wrote:Stick a fork in SU-57, it's done. Without funding, it's doubtful it'll proceed past the 12 pre-production aircraft now earmarked for service. Without that Indian $, they'll either have to find a new partner (UAE?) or forgoe a true stealth aircraft altogether.


The new tank called the T14 Armata will enter service soon. Even if the Su-57 flops on the export market in the near future, I think it will be procured domestically and will eventually secure some export sales.
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: XanderCrews and 26 guests