India and the F-35?

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white_lightning35

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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 03:23

I did touch on that with my post: "Would this all be just to try to buddy up to India?" It appears then that India is playing a double game here. I agree that it would be great to have India firmly on "our side", so to speak, but how realistic that is is what I am wondering. It's unimportant, but still just unfortunate to me that such a great plane could be relegated to simple bargaining chip status.
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lbk000

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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 05:07

I think a key issue here is not actually India, but Pakistan. Any realignment with India would be a boon in that it would not only check Chinese influence in the area, but also Pakistan's ever-increasing boldness in playing China and the US against each other.
Yet at the same time from a geostrategic perspective, losing Pakistan to China would frustrate US force projection in the Middle East. Were it only that Afghanistan wasn't a complete shitshow...
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element1loop

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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 06:32

popcorn wrote:
white_lightning35 wrote:What the absolute f##k? Am I just blind to seeing how this would be a good deal? Would this all be just to try to buddy up to India? Are the few extra sales just that important? I sincerely hope this is just clickbait journalism running amok.

Look at this in the context of the US working toward achieving a closer strategic relationship with the world's largest democracy. The considerations implications for trade, security cooperation. geopolitics, etc. that factor in any relationship between nation states are far more expansive than "a few extra sales" that would be generated by selling F-35s to India.


Can India continue to fence-sit in the old Cold War era 'non-alligned movement' camp in the face of J-20, J-31 stealth air power threat? I think not.

Can USA sell F-35A to a non-alligned non-Alliance state? I think not.

Can India afford to forego F-35A? I think not.

In otherd words, India would have to propose to enter into a formal full-spectrum military alliance relationship with the USA.

That should be what Washington requires for a sale to proceed.

That's a resonable prerequisite in the circumstances.

The Indians may be getting ready to propose that.
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popcorn

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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 10:55

https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/report- ... -briefing/

Report: India Requests Classified F-35A Joint Strike Fighter Briefing

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is formally requesting a classified briefing by U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin on the capabilities of its fifth-generation stealth multirole F-35A Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II, the aircraft’s conventional takeoff and landing version, according to Indian media reports.

The United States has not formally offered the aircraft to India and any classified briefing would require clearance by the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of State. The Business Standard reports that the IAF would possibly be interested in procuring up to 126 F-35As from the United States as a deal for 126 French-made Dassault Rafale multirole fighter aircraft fell through...
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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steve2267

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 02:54

In the FWIW category, I personally am far more comfortable with India getting F-35's than, say, Turkey. Or Pakistan. Or UAE or Saudi Arabia.

And if that helps build better relations / commerce with India, great. I don't know how well developed India is in terms of electronics factories etc, but I'd much prefer to be sourcing electronic tech / parts from India, than from PRC.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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popcorn

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 03:18

Like the article says toward the end, I think F-16 is the more likely option for India if they buy American. OTOH, if by some circumstance they seriously pursue the F-35 at some point, I think the "Made in India" impediment is fungible as the IG can always cite national security concerns to trump it. Other offsets can be negotiated.
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white_lightning35

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 03:47

steve2267 wrote:In the FWIW category, I personally am far more comfortable with India getting F-35's than, say, Turkey. Or Pakistan. Or UAE or Saudi Arabia.

And if that helps build better relations / commerce with India, great. I don't know how well developed India is in terms of electronics factories etc, but I'd much prefer to be sourcing electronic tech / parts from India, than from PRC.


India has it's own niche right now, but that isn't trying to compete with China in manufacturing. The West buys things from China because it can't afford not to, as of now, but I'm not sure if India will ever replace China in that regard. It's obviously never smart to say what the future will be like, but I don't think what happened with China will happen with India. China's economy succeeded in the past 40 years because its people did what they were told by the government, or else they'd be shot. India is a democracy, which means that pesky things like free speech and different opinions will get in the way of growing like China did. So I don't think that India will be able to replace China, in this sense.

A little off-topic, but just my thoughts.
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element1loop

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 04:35

white_lightning35 wrote: ... China's economy succeeded in the past 40 years because its people did what they were told by the government, ...

A little off-topic, but just my thoughts.


China grew predominently because, for decades the CCP told Chinese banks what their credit quota was for that quarter, and God help them if they did not lend that much cash into the resulting credit 'economy'. The result? Fastest debt growth in all of human history. Now does a mountain of debt cancel-out a mountain of unaffordable GDP 'growth', purchased on the national credit card? Michael Pettis is an excellent source on the (off-topic} process, and the long-term implications.

http://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinan ... kets/75355

It's what you would do if you wanted to fake being a capitalist market-economy, in order too fool everyone that you're a genuine economic success story, and destined to become the biggest economy, and biggest military power.

Nope.
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milosh

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 10:42

popcorn wrote:Like the article says toward the end, I think F-16 is the more likely option for India if they buy American. OTOH, if by some circumstance they seriously pursue the F-35 at some point, I think the "Made in India" impediment is fungible as the IG can always cite national security concerns to trump it. Other offsets can be negotiated.

F-16XL

8)
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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 20:28

milosh wrote:F-16XL
8)

Given that thing lost to F-15E...

F-15IN?
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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 21:11

juretrn wrote:Given that thing lost to F-15E...

F-15IN?


.....In a faux fly off to keep F-15 production going - is no measure of how good it was. :wink:
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XanderCrews

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Unread post18 Feb 2018, 02:22

basher54321 wrote:
juretrn wrote:Given that thing lost to F-15E...

F-15IN?


.....In a faux fly off to keep F-15 production going - is no measure of how good it was. :wink:



Lol f-15e is hard to beat
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Unread post18 Feb 2018, 13:50

An advanced F-15 for India would surely be interesting. I would not however, allow them to gain the upper hand vs. Chinese j-20's and 31's.

For that, they'll need the F-35 (or the sales video for Gripen, LOL)
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milosh

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Unread post19 Feb 2018, 00:13

mixelflick wrote:An advanced F-15 for India would surely be interesting. I would not however, allow them to gain the upper hand vs. Chinese j-20's and 31's.

For that, they'll need the F-35 (or the sales video for Gripen, LOL)


India don't have problem with big fighters just look how many MKI they have, what they lack is something smaller which can replace MiG-21, Jaguar and MiG-27. F-16 could fit in that role, not expensive and it is proven but it would be even better to offered them F-16XL if they want to buy F-35.
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Unread post19 Feb 2018, 01:25

The very first thing India should do, is to embrace the West, fully; joining Nato if necessary.


Btw, something is happening to the Chinese economy tho. Several big Chinese corporations are getting their investment blocked by the gov. The last one i know of is Suning group (which makes me happy becaue, FU F.C. Internazionale).

Bubble about to burst?
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