India and the F-35?

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 06:50

babybat{}.net wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Problem for India is how long can she wait??? Before she finally realizes that China is going to build hundreds of J-20's and J-31's. Which, she could also provide to Pakistan! While, the Indian Air Force has nothing to counter......:shock:


j-20 is a machine for the domestic market, and to counter future j-31 there is a "super-30" program. The possible supply of su-35 to Pakistan poses a great threat.



It's "extremely" doubtful that the Su-30MKI or even Su-35. Are a match for China's forthcoming Stealth Fighters. (i.e. J-20 and J-31)

:doh:
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 06:52

mixelflick wrote:And if the latest reports are true, even non-AESA equipped MKI's can detect the J-20...

In a perfect world, I think we should sell the F-35 to India. Would turn the tide once and for all insofar as getting away from Russia, and with the West in her alliance vs. China. It just makes sense...



Such reports should be taken with a grain of salt. Only internet bloggers are taking them seriously at the moment.... :roll:
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:01

weasel1962 wrote:The Super 30 is an upgrade of the 20+ year old Su-30MKI that at its heart installs a 1st gen Russian AESA in place of the non-AESA Bars.

The reality is that Pakistan can't really afford anything better than the JF-17 even if the Chinese have already pitched, re-pitched and practically thrown the J-31 (after pitching the J-10) at PAF's doorstep. Same thing happened with the Z-10 helo.


Sure Pakistan has a very limited budget. Yet, that doesn't mean China couldn't provide Pakistan some J-31's at extremely favorable prices. If, India becomes to much of a threat. That or maybe Pakistan will provide China with bases to operate her own 5th Generation Fighters from within the country. This would be a big counter to the IAF....(anything is possible)

And the Indians know that. That's why IAF procurement plans center around procuring 18 Tejas squadrons. Ironically, this will be another major reason for a CAATSA waiver since all 18 Tejas Squadrons will be propelled by F404/F414 engines imported from the US.


India is procuring LCA (Tejas) for pride and the fact that it would be political suicide to cancel the project....(sadly)

P.s. India's procurement processes are notorious. The MMRCA originated in year 1982 when the IAF bought 40 Mirage 2000s and left the other 110 options open until the M2000 line closed, which then became the 2001 126 plane MMRCA RFP and ended up with 36 Rafales, which hasn't been delivered to date.... still, that's better than the FGFA saga.



The last part I can completely agree with..... :shock:
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:16

weasel1962 wrote:The Super 30 is an upgrade of the 20+ year old Su-30MKI that at its heart installs a 1st gen Russian AESA in place of the non-AESA Bars.


I'm not sure the super-30 will get AESA. Rather, it'll be the version of the locator IRBIS. It'll be enough for parity with j-31.
And by the way, how do you define generations of Russian AESA? Even I've seen at least 5 generations of Russian T/R modules, from late soviet, to modern russian..

weasel1962 wrote:The reality is that Pakistan can't really afford anything better than the JF-17 even if the Chinese have already pitched, re-pitched and practically thrown the J-31 (after pitching the J-10) at PAF's doorstep. Same thing happened with the Z-10 helo.


Russia has a practice of providing loans for the purchase of its weapons. So I would not rule out the conclusion of a contract for the su-35 after the contract for the supply of s-400 to Pakistan. Source - former Defence Minister Khurram Dastgir Khan.
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:22

Corsair1963 wrote:It's "extremely" doubtful that the Su-30MKI or even Su-35. Are a match for China's forthcoming Stealth Fighters. (i.e. J-20 and J-31)

:doh:



I can't understand your appreciation of the j-31. This is an aircraft with low flight characteristics, small size of the antenna and old engines.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:24

babybat{}.net wrote:

I'm not sure the super-30 will get AESA. Rather, it'll be the version of the locator IRBIS. It'll be enough for parity with j-31.
And by the way, how do you define generations of Russian AESA? Even I've seen at least 5 generations of Russian T/R modules, from late soviet, to modern russian..



Sorry, giving the 4th Generation Su-30MKI an improved IRBIS or even a totally New AESA Radar. Isn't going to give it parity with the J-31........
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:31

Corsair1963 wrote:Sorry, giving the 4th Generation Su-30MKI an improved IRBIS or even a totally New AESA Radar. Isn't going to give it parity with the J-31........[/i]


The only advantage of the j-31 is a reduced RCS, in all other respects, the super-30 will surpasses it.
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2432
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:38

Irbis is a PESA. Zhuk-AE.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:39

babybat{}.net wrote:
The only advantage of the j-31 is a reduced RCS, in all other respects, the super-30 will surpasses it.



Stealth is a very big advantage. Plus, what proof do you have that the Su-30MKI's will surpass it in other areas???
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:42

Only real option for India is the F-35. As it is the only fighter that will guarantee India Air Superiority over the PLAAF for the foreseeable future.
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:47

Corsair1963 wrote:Stealth is a very big advantage.


Of course, but in this case, the new radar will provide sufficient detection range.

Corsair1963 wrote:Plus, what proof do you have that the Su-30MKI's will surpass it in other areas???


For example - speed, maneuverability, altitude, thrust-to-weight ratio, combat radius, combat load, antenna diameter..
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 07:55

babybat{}.net wrote:
Of course, but in this case, the new radar will provide sufficient detection range.




For example - speed, maneuverability, altitude, thrust-to-weight ratio, combat radius, combat load, antenna diameter....


You have sources to support either claim???
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:00

Corsair1963 wrote:You have sources to support either claim???


What exactly do you want me to prove?
All the information exist in open sources, but if you don’t find any, I’ll certainly try to help.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:19

babybat{}.net wrote:
What exactly do you want me to prove?
All the information exist in open sources, but if you don’t find any, I’ll certainly try to help.



We know little about the J-20 and even less about the J-31. So, what open sources are you talking about??? :roll:
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2432
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:23

Disregarding prototypes like J-31, not sure what advantage Super 30 will be against AESA equipped J-11s and J-16s, not to mention the new squadron of Su-35s which are already in service. The IAF focus is still very much on Pakistan, not China.
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: southernphantom and 19 guests