The Germans are coming!

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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usnvo

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Unread post21 May 2019, 01:40

marauder2048 wrote:I don't believe the Navy has nuclear certified an aircraft since the A-6; the tribal knowledge
on this front is likely completely gone...

...And the Super Hornet timeline would put it in contention for the resources needed
for B-21 nuclear certification.


Agreed, the timeline looks completely unreasonable. That was why I am curious what the qualifier was that wasn't quoted in the article. AFAIK there is no plan for the USN to make the F-18E/F nuclear capable. Given that a nuclear capable F-35C will be available in fairly large numbers (about 1 squadron per airwing by 2027 or so, sooner if they wanted to send the F-35Cs out in 5 plane detachments like EF-18Gs) ), there is just no reason to waste the resources.
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doge

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Unread post19 Jun 2019, 07:32

It's a composite of various news.
Germany and Canada come again !!!(?) :doh:
http://airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2 ... -Hurt.aspx
Lockheed Exec: With Time, Turkish F-35 Ouster Won’t Hurt
6/13/2019​––JOHN A. TIRPAK
Lockheed Martin is continuously assessing its F-35 supply chain and eyeing potential alternate vendors, for just such a case as Turkey’s expulsion from the multinational program, company executive vice president for aeronautics Michele Evans said on June 13. It’s likely the Turkish eviction won’t have much effect on cost or schedule of the program writ large, she said.

Evans, after a pre-Paris Air Show briefing for defense journalists, told Air Force Magazine, “with time, we can adjust” the F-35 supply chain to account for disruptions such as Turkey’s ouster. “We are always working with our vendors and suppliers, … and looking for the lowest-cost” approach to building the F-35, she said, noting there is a shop at Lockheed whose sole function is to develop production work-arounds in case of an interruption of supply.

“We can’t afford to wait for things like this to happen,” she said. “We have to be ready with something else” to replace lost vendors. The Pentagon plans to “unwind” Turkey from the F-35 program by early 2020, a date set by defense acquisition and sustainment chief Ellen Lord last week, although immediate steps have been taken to lock Turkey out of this week’s F-35 CEO meeting. Turkish pilots and attaché​​​s also must disengage from F-35 training and program work by July 31. Lord said she expects the industrial severance to be complete by the first quarter of 2020, barring a reversal of Turkey’s decision to buy Russia’s S-400 air defense system. The S-400 is “incompatible” with the F-35, Lord said.

Evans insisted the issues regarding Turkey’s exit from the program are “government-to-government” and the company will do as it’s directed. She could not offer any information on what might become of tooling and other F-35 industrial equipment now in Turkey.

In other F-35 news, Evans said Lockheed’s ability to deliver the $80 million unit cost on the strike fighter a year ahead of schedule—based on the recent multi-year contract—is proof the company is investing in production technologies and squeezing vendors to extract all possible savings from the project. “We will not take our foot off the gas,” she said, noting Lockheed hopes to reduce the unit cost even further. The burden of cost reductions isn’t falling only on vendors; Lockheed is working hard to trim its own costs so vendors and subcontractors know the cost reductions are an enterprise-wide demand.

As for sustainment costs, which the military services have identified as their biggest heartache with the F-35, Evans said Lockheed stands behind its goal to get costs per flying hour below $25,000 by 2025, and will meet the Air Force’s goal of spending $4.1 million per tail, per year. She also said that Air Force F-35As at Red Flag exercises recently turned in a 90 percent mission capable rate, while Marine Corps F-35Bs chalked up a 75 percent MC rate on the USS Essex.

Intellectual property rights, often a hangup in previous F-35 negotiations, will be less so in the future, Evans said. While return of value to Lockheed shareholders is important, “IP is not going to be as valuable as it was” in even the recent past, due to the accelerating rate at which software will be revamped and overtaken by events.

Evans said the F-35 was demonstrated in Switzerland on June 12 and Finland on June 13, and a Marine Corps F-35B flew over the White House on June 12 in honor of the Polish president’s visit. Besides those countries, sales prospects again include Canada, and Evans said she hopes Germany will reconsider the F-35. Belgium recently ordered the jet, Japan significantly increased its order, and Singapore will buy a quartet of Lightnings with options for eight more.
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loke

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Unread post19 Jun 2019, 16:07

doge wrote:It's a composite of various news.
Germany and Canada come again !!!(?) :doh:

Canada is a no-brainer, they will for sure go for the F-35 (they are an F-35 partner!!!). I do not see any Canadian arguments for not going for F-35. It's not like they plan to develop their own 5. gen fighter jet...

I am not so sure about Germany, they do not have the "F-35 partner" situation in addition they will develop a new bird with France and Spain so will most likely stay out of F-35. The only strong argument for F-35 for Germany would be the nuclear thingy -- which is important but at the same time politically sensitive in pacifist Germany...
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vilters

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Unread post19 Jun 2019, 22:49

The German aviation industry needs the work and know-how.

From being the smartest and most inventive aircraft and missile Industry before and during WW2, they went downhill to close to nothing except some badly failing programs like Tornado and Tiffy, NH-90 and AM-400, and they don't have the lead in any of those.
Ok, they produce parts, also for Airbus, but so do many other countries.

From aviation super power? They went to by-standers in 50years time.

The German political and financial climate is not ready for them to pick up on aviation any time soon either.

Europe wanting to play the "all smiles and no worries buddy-buddy game", France will take the lead, and the kids will follow if they get a piece of the cake.

PS; No clue how Italy got involved in the F-35 but really?
Nothing good has been coming from Italy the last few decades.
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optimist

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 01:58

I really can't see germany going with the Rhino and Growler. They will go Euro or the F-35. Seeing they have said no to the F-35, that leaves Euro.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 02:00

optimist wrote:I really can't see germany going with the Rhino and Growler. They will go Euro or the F-35. Seeing they have said no to the F-35, that leaves Euro.



There was some talk of a mix buy of Typhoons and F-35's. Which, would be a good compromise....
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XanderCrews

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 05:32

loke wrote:
doge wrote:It's a composite of various news.
Germany and Canada come again !!!(?) :doh:

Canada is a no-brainer, they will for sure go for the F-35 (they are an F-35 partner!!!). I do not see any Canadian arguments for not going for F-35. It's not like they plan to develop their own 5. gen fighter jet...

I am not so sure about Germany, they do not have the "F-35 partner" situation in addition they will develop a new bird with France and Spain so will most likely stay out of F-35. The only strong argument for F-35 for Germany would be the nuclear thingy -- which is important but at the same time politically sensitive in pacifist Germany...



What an odd contradiction for a pacifist Germany to insist on developing its own warplanes.

Truly clown world

I'm amazed they have learned anything, but Typhoon II electric boogaloo should be bring some serious laughs.

Over or Under 25 years before full service?
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madrat

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 11:11

Germany is soft on Russia, hence they don't feel the need to fight WW3. People forget that after reunification, half the population had been in bed with the Russians. You have to be leary of sharing too much with them any more.
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hythelday

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 09:00

"German defense minister wants quick decision on Tornado replacement"

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany ... SL2N26E1ED

Germany in January decided to pick either the Eurofighter - built by Airbus, Britain’s BAE Systems and Italy’s Leonardo SpA - or Boeing Co’s F/A-18 fighter, dropping Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter out of a tender worth billions of euros.

However neither the F/A-18 nor the Eurofighter is currently certified to carry U.S. nuclear weapons, as required under Germany’s obligations to NATO. Germany is asking Washington to spell out what it will take to get those aircraft certified.
...
But experts say it could take years to get the new planes certified to carry nuclear weapons


(German MoD) Kramp-Karrenbauer said she also had a frank discussion with Esper about Germany’s rejection of the F-35 as a possible replacement for the Tornado jets, given concerns that it could impede work on a Franco-German next-generation combat jet.

We made clear that ... the Future Combat Air System with the French was one of the reasons that ... we had to seek other solutions,” she said, when asked if she ruled out taking another look at the F-35.


First of all, it's genius really. Germany pretends to fulfill it's obligation by sustaining the notion that they are still up for the dual nukes, however instead of the "quick decisions" which the MoD promised they chose a route that "could take years". So they'll still have the nukes but have no means of delivery. They'll also immune to any criticism because they'll excuse themselves with "we do have the means of delivery, but the integration work takes time..." year after year after year.

It's also cool that they officially acknowledge that F-35 was sacked purely because it was seen a reasonable threat to SCAF (and we were told that it was going to be a generation ahead of F-35 and so much better, huh). This also means that allegations that the previous Luftwaffe chief was shown the door purely on political grounds because he opposed "quick decisions" and wanted "the best, now" instead of "maybea little better, 30 years later".
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element1loop

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 10:15

Poland will have the better air force soon. :mrgreen:
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Corsair1963

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Unread post26 Sep 2019, 06:01

element1loop wrote:Poland will have the better air force soon. :mrgreen:



It will as soon as the F-35's arrive.... :wink:
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Unread post13 Nov 2019, 11:28

Achtung, A400s are not coming!

German military refuses to take two Airbus A400M planes due to be delivered
Germany's air force said on Wednesday it had decided not to take two Airbus A400M planes that were due to be delivered, citing recurring technical problems with the military transporters.


Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/bu ... d-12090438
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