The Germans are coming!

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post10 Mar 2018, 00:27

vilters wrote:Toink, toink, toink,
That's me falling over.
Germans are not stupid you know.
2 Disasters is more then enough. (Tornado and Tiffy)

So their 2 prior choices of going with a "European" jet were "disasters"?

Great, so you support Germany going with the F-35?
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post17 Mar 2018, 09:39

Luffwaffe General dismissed after supporting the F-35.

“The Chief of the Luftwaffe is to leave his position in large part due to his support for a German procurement of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), Jane’s has learned.”

http://www.janes.com/article/78644/luft ... 35-support
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madrat

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Unread post17 Mar 2018, 16:50

The former Stazi has asserted itself over the content and happy former western half. There is absolutely no reason to suspect these new German leaders are faithful to their own people judging by their pivot against America. They already had the trappings of being overly friendly with Russia. Now there is no reason to guess why they are so happy to import chaos. It's the old Marxist attempt to create problems they have to solve with more terrible solutions. An independent European stealth fighter of the same weight class is lunacy.
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mixelflick

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Unread post18 Mar 2018, 13:51

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Luffwaffe General dismissed after supporting the F-35.

“The Chief of the Luftwaffe is to leave his position in large part due to his support for a German procurement of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), Jane’s has learned.”

http://www.janes.com/article/78644/luft ... 35-support


He'll ultimately be vindicated, at the cost of career suicide. Sad to see this happening but that's how the world works. They just want yes men...
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madrat

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Unread post18 Mar 2018, 14:44

No different than sellouts like McConnell asking for heads of career officers that spoke unflattering things about China. When you realize who he married and her father's ties to the communist communities of both Russia and China, it makes you wonder his allegiance.
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nutshell

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Unread post19 Mar 2018, 02:02

It's a lost train.

Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminum i guess the JSF defenetively lost a potential customer.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post19 Mar 2018, 05:35

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Luffwaffe General dismissed after supporting the F-35.

“The Chief of the Luftwaffe is to leave his position in large part due to his support for a German procurement of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), Jane’s has learned.”

http://www.janes.com/article/78644/luft ... 35-support


It will years before Germany actually replace the Tornados. So, I wouldn't rule out the F-35 in the future...


Especially, considering the Typhoon wouldn't survive in the role post 2030! :shock:
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citanon

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Unread post19 Mar 2018, 11:30

Well, perhaps it's for the best. Everyone else in Europe will sleep a little better knowing that the Luftwaffe will continue to be weaker than the bean counters, factory bosses and worker's unions in Germany. One wouldn't want Herr Goring back again. :D :devil:
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magitsu

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Unread post19 Mar 2018, 12:57

Plenty of these recently. Macron caused Chief of the Defence Staff Pierre de Villiers to resign. In Canada the military's 2nd in command Mark Norman was forced out because he ensured that the very necessary auxiliary oiler got made instead of waiting for the new ones to get completed in 10 years. Damn politics getting in the way of logic.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-20/f ... on/8726124
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/admiral ... -1.4057763
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nutshell

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Unread post03 Apr 2018, 00:10

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/mondo/luf ... 11310.html

(Google Translation not included)

So basically, German MoD pretty much declared Tornado not viable/deployable anymore for Nato OPs.
The main reasons appears to be the very low security offered by its cyberwarfare system (makes me laugh a bit, what did they expect?) and the lack of a modern IFF, both systems were supposed to be part of an upgrade suite that Luftwaffe now officially dismiss as a viable solution.
Is this the prelude of Germany selling its soul to LM ?
I think it's a scenario more realistic than ever, since it looks a bit "too sudden" for the planned franco-german 5th gen.
OTOH, this might be the first step for Germany departure from the alliance. Who knows.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 17:21

Lockheed, US Air Force mount F-35 sales pitch at Berlin Air Show [airshow bit in appropriate other thread]
23 Apr 2018 Sebastian Sprenger HERE for other: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24622&p=393255&hilit=sprenger#p393255 ]

"...The preferred candidate for the Germans, however, is a beefed-up version of the Eurofighter Typhoon, made by a consortium of Airbus, BAE Systems and Leonardo. That preference is in part based on industrial policy calculations. Nursing a European combat aircraft industry is a prerequisite for fulfilling the promise of a militarily stronger Europe, the thinking goes.

Airbus Defence and Space chief Dirk Hoke told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper that if Germany picks the American F-35, it would upend plans for the German-French co-development of a new-generation aircraft that would begin service sometime in the 2040s. Officials from both countries are expected to sign a top-level agreement at the Berlin Air Show about that future platform’s envisioned characteristics. “As soon as Germany becomes an F-35 nation, cooperation with France on all combat aircraft topics will die,” Hoke warned....

...a U.S. delegation of Lockheed Martin executives and government officials is expected to hand over detailed data about the jet to the German Defense Ministry on Tuesday. The move comes in response to a request for information that went out to all potential vendors as part of Germany’s efforts to survey the market. Some backers of the F-35 here hold the somewhat cynical view that Germany would much rather not have a competitive combat aircraft in service as an excuse for opting out of future operations....

...Critics of the F-35 as a choice for Germany argue that the planes would be much more expensive than the Eurofighter Typhoon option. [seems illogical] And that’s not even counting the cost of sustaining the fleet, especially in relatively low numbers, and the prospect of ceding key program decisions to a trans-Atlantic partner that many in Germany have come to see as increasingly capricious."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -air-show/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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vilters

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 17:32

Ghoring would say.

Vve vvill vvin the vvar mein herrr.....

More Tiffy's?
They must have won the lottery.
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ricnunes

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 18:34

spazsinbad wrote:
...Critics of the F-35 as a choice for Germany argue that the planes would be much more expensive than the Eurofighter Typhoon option. [seems illogical] And that’s not even counting the cost of sustaining the fleet, especially in relatively low numbers, and the prospect of ceding key program decisions to a trans-Atlantic partner that many in Germany have come to see as increasingly capricious."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -air-show/


LoL, that one above (underlined and bold) just won the "most comical comment of the month" and is a strong contender to win the "most comical comment of 2018" award... :roll: :doh:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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citanon

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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 04:15

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sunstersun

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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 06:31

more eurofighters pls.

fly em from 2025-2060. Be the only ones to support a typhoon fleet when 7th generation is one the way.
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