The Turkey problem

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spazsinbad

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 06:13

Turkey considers Russian Su-57, Chinese J-31 jets to replace F-35s - Yeni Şafak
09 Jun 2019 Yeni Şafak
:devil: "...“Ankara already thinks [whoda thunk a city could thunk?] that even if F-35s are delivered, they will create serious security risks for Turkey as they are directly commanded by the United States [KILL SWITCH! UhOH!]. Therefore, nobody regrets ‘losing’ F-35s,” the daily said...." :doh: [those turkeys are tuff brudda]

Source: https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/turkey- ... yeni-safak OR http://ahval.co/en-49790
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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falcon.16

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 11:34

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mixelflick

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 13:42

loke wrote:You are wrong about the Patriot; the early versions were not great but the latest iteration look pretty solid.

According to Polarbear the real issue is that they do not get access to configure the system as they would like -- for instance they would like the option to change the IFF protocols so that Greek or Israeli (or even US) a/c are recognized as Foe not Friendly.

I agree that it is a potential issue that Russia will be strengthened by this. Unfortunately. But it seems Erdogan is very determined to walk this road. Hopefully somebody more sensible will follow him, and hopefully it will be possible to revert this currently very negative development in Turkey.


"Pretty solid" though still isn't close to the S-400

PATRIOT
(WIKIPEDIA)

Operational
range
PAC-1: 70 km[17]
PAC-2: 96 km[18]-160 km[17][19]
PAC-3: 20 km against ballistic missile[20]
PAC-3 MSE: 35 km against ballistic missile[21]
Flight altitude 79,500 feet (24,200 m)
Speed PAC-1: Mach 2.8[22]
PAC-2/PAC-3: Mach 4.1[23]

S-400
(Wikipedia)

Operational
range
380 km (40N6E missile)
250 km (48N6 missile)

120 km (9M96E2 missile)
40 km (9M96E missile)

And at least one of these missiles travels at hypersonic speeds.

I realize wikipedia isn't always accurate, but in no instance can I find Patriot's missiles traveling anywhere near the velocity of the S-400's, nor can I find it even approaching the S-400's maximum range. Let me put it this way: If I'm a pilot flying an F-15 I would much rather try and defeat the Patriot, as the S-400 has so many ways to kill me faster and farther out. And by no small measure.

So I'll concede the Patriot is a good missile/SAM system. But let's not kid ourselves.. the S-400 is far more capable. And if it weren't, the USAF would be just fine with continuing to send F-16CJ's etc against it. Just another SAM system, right? Nope. Instead, we're building the F-35. A trillion dollar weapons system and the crux of US and allied air power for the next 50 years... with the express purpose of defeating it.

You don't see Russia building a comparable aircraft because it feels US air defenses are so fearsome, they need to do something about it. We are, and the S-400/500 is the reason...
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vilters

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 14:46

And Turkistan is going to use these against who or what? :devil:
To my knowledge the Kurds have no Air Force. :bang:

PS, and if the numbers I see here above are as accurate as their F-57 numbers, nobody has anything to fear either.

And if anything would ever happen?
A Tomahawk here, a Tomahawk there, and all is well.
All of Turkistan is available for a "lost" Submarine.
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loke

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 19:49

Turkey has expressed fury at the way its national footballers were treated at Iceland's Reykjavik airport.
In a tweet, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu called the team's treatment "unacceptable in terms of diplomatic and humanitarian practice" and said Turkey would "do what is necessary".

As journalists surrounded some players on arrival a dish-scouring brush could be seen among the microphones.
Players also endured a lengthy customs search, Turkish media reported.

According to Turkish broadcaster NTV, Turkey has delivered a diplomatic protest to Iceland.
Iceland's ministry of foreign affairs said that a request for "fast-track security" from the Turkish embassy was sent only hours before the team's arrival, and so was never processed.

But in any event, "such privilege is usually only accorded to senior government officials", it said.

Since Turkey is not in the European Union or Schengen zone, which has common security rules with Iceland, standard procedures applied - which for the entire Turkish team and staff took one hour and 23 minutes, the ministry said.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48580770

LOL!!! The turks are really becoming drama queens..! diplomatic protest because their soccer team did not get "fast-track security"???

More on this very serious diplomatic incident between two NATO allies:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan held a phone call with Nihat Özdemir, the head of Turkish Football Federation (TFF), regarding the incident and said that necessary precautions are being taken by the state.


“The authorities are responsible for this inhumane and diplomatically unacceptable behavior. What was done to our national team was a kind of violence. Iceland’s authorities should apologize for this ‘primitive’ practice and take steps to compensate for this mistake,” he added.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey ... ort-144061

This is just incredible -- whereas Erdogan and his cronies have put thousands of people in prison, including many foreigners from other NATO countriesand kept them for a long time with no evidence of wrongdoing, they start talking about "inhumane" and "diplomatically unacceptable behavior" because their soccer team is stuck in security control for 1 hour and 23 minutes???

A good thing they will not get a single F-35!!!
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 19:56

LOL...

So now a troll (Belgian tourist ) with a cellphone is a "journalist"?
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"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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spazsinbad

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 23:53

:devil: Here is our LITTLE AUSSIE BLEEDER... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW2kSkurQFs

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 02:15

U.S. Grounds Turkish F-35 Pilots

Pilots no longer allowed to fly or access restricted information as spat over Russian missile defense system continues.

By Lara Seligman | June 10, 2019, 6:03 PM

The U.S. military has grounded the Turkish pilots training on the F-35 fighter jet in the United States and cut off their access to the aircraft’s restricted information in anticipation of Turkey’s expulsion from the program over its plans to purchase a contentious Russian missile system.

The U.S. Defense Department last week formally gave Turkey a deadline of July 31 to scrap the deal for Russia’s S-400 missile system before cutting the NATO ally out of the F-35 program altogether. At that point, if Ankara does not change course, all Turkish Air Force personnel involved in the program must leave the United States.

But for the six Turkish pilots at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona—two instructors and four students—their access to the new American-made jet has already been cut off. Last week, Brig. Gen. Todd Canterbury, the wing commander, made the decision to immediately ground the pilots and restrict their access to the “vault,” which holds state secrets and classified materials, according to two U.S. defense officials.

Canterbury’s main concern was that continuing to allow the Turkish pilots access to the F-35’s most sensitive data—instruction manuals, for example—after the July 31 deadline was imposed would provide them an opportunity to take classified information out of the secure space, one official said.

Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Mike Andrews confirmed that the Turkish pilots at Luke Air Force Base are no longer flying despite the July 31 deadline.

“Without a change in Turkish policy, we will continue to work closely with our Turkish ally on winding down their participation in the F-35 program,” he said.

The grounding was billed as an “operational pause” so that if Turkey decides to scrap the S-400 at the last minute, the pilots could resume their training.

But that outcome does not look likely. The grounding is the latest sign of increasingly strained ties between Washington and Ankara amid ongoing tension over U.S. support for the Kurds in the fight in Syria and Turkey’s growing friendship with Russia. The U.S. government has signaled the spat over the S-400 could lead to sanctions, which experts say would have a dire effect on Turkey’s already fragile economy and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s popularity as he faces the prospect of his party losing the Istanbul mayoral election for a second time in a rerun later this month.

U.S. officials say the S-400, which is slated to arrive in the country as soon as this month, poses a threat to the F-35 itself, and the integration of the two systems could provide Moscow insight into closely guarded U.S. military secrets.

The decision to begin “unwinding” Turkey from the F-35 program was prompted in part by the discovery that Turkey had sent personnel to Russia to begin training on the S-400, said Andrew Winternitz, acting deputy assistant secretary of defense for Europe and NATO.

The Pentagon is in discussions with Turkey’s defense ministry over reimbursing Ankara for the cost of the aircraft it has already bought, said Ellen Lord, the undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment.

Defense Department officials stressed that they want to keep the F-35 versus S-400 dispute separate from broader cooperation on a range of issues with a key NATO ally. Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base is a critical launching point for the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism in the Middle East, and it’s home to U.S. nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, Turkey is also NATO’s southern flank against a threat from Russia.

However, experts note that Erdogan’s move to acquire the S-400 despite such strong opposition from Washington may signal the country’s broader pivot away from the trans-Atlantic alliance—toward Moscow.

“This sets Turkey on a dangerous trajectory, and it will make the Turkish military more prone to Russian meddling,” said Aykan Erdemir, a former member of the Turkish parliament and a senior fellow with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/06/10/fi ... 35-pilots/
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mixelflick

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 18:49

vilters wrote:And Turkistan is going to use these against who or what? :devil:
To my knowledge the Kurds have no Air Force. :bang:

PS, and if the numbers I see here above are as accurate as their F-57 numbers, nobody has anything to fear either.

And if anything would ever happen?
A Tomahawk here, a Tomahawk there, and all is well.
All of Turkistan is available for a "lost" Submarine.


F-57?

Did you mean SU-57??
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sunstersun

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 19:16

kick turkey out and put Poland/India on an accelerated schedule :P
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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 20:06

sunstersun wrote:kick turkey out and put Poland/India on an accelerated schedule :P


Also get Greece on board to add insult to injury. :twisted:
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 20:12

Donate the Turkish F-35s to Kurdistan :roll:
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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pron

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 20:22

Tiger05 wrote:
sunstersun wrote:kick turkey out and put Poland/India on an accelerated schedule :P


Also get Greece on board to add insult to injury. :twisted:


Sure, some hope for this....
Greece Mulls Purchase of F-35 Fighter Jets from the US.
https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/0 ... om-the-us/
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Tiger05

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 20:46

It would be deliciously ironic if Greece ended up getting F-35s but not Turkey. Things were not looking good for Greek air power not too long ago which was being left in the dust by the Turkish AF's rapid modernization. Now the air power balance between Greece and Turkey may very well shift in Greece's favour if the HAF gets the F-35. Two squadrons of F-35s alongside 85 F-16Vs and about 100 older legacy F-16C/Ds and Mirage 2000-5s would be a force to be reckoned with.
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loke

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Unread post11 Jun 2019, 21:33

CNN)The US Air Force has pulled 26 Turkish military personnel from its F-35 fighter jet training program due to "safety" concerns stemming from the ongoing dispute over Turkey's push to buy both American stealth aircraft and a Russian missile defense system, according to a defense official directly familiar with the matter.


The safety concern is being explained as the same procedure used to temporarily ground US military pilots if they are facing a "significant life event," such as a divorce or death in the family, that would be a distraction during flight operations, the official told CNN.


https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/11/poli ... index.html
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