The Turkey problem

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optimist

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 20:00

It even makes it hard to believe in Santa Clause now. Fancy a state doing underhanded, corrupted things, that it feels is in someones best interest.
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optimist

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 20:05

Dragon029 wrote:While that's generally the case with aircraft, don't forget that there's things like M1A1 / M1A2s sold to partners with downgraded armour, etc.

aus didn't want anything with depleted uranium, even the gun had to clean and never fired a DU round. the only thing I'm sure of is that in wartime, that political decision will be thrown out the window.
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mas

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 20:56

The Sultan is still fuming, perhaps he might leave NATO of his own accord ...

https://www.rt.com/news/410283-nato-nor ... y-erdogan/

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has rebuffed a NATO apology for what he called “impudence” during the alliance’s drills in Norway, where he was depicted on an “enemies chart.” The scandal led to the withdrawal of Turkish troops from the exercise.

On Friday, Ankara ordered its troops to pull out of NATO military games in Norway after the incumbent Turkish leader and Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of the modern Turkish state, appeared in an “enemy” list. Following the scandal, both NATO and Norway offered their apologies for the incident, saying that the message did not reflect their views.

“There can be no alliance like that," Erdogan said on Friday, adding that even the removal of those names would not change the decision. On Saturday, despite the officials’ apologies and affirmations, the insulted leader remained steadfast, saying that NATO cannot easily get away with the incident.

"Yesterday, you have witnessed the impudence at NATO exercises in Norway. There are some mistakes that cannot be committed by fools but only by vile people,” Erdogan said in a televised speech. He added that the incident shows “a reflection of a distorted point of view that we have observed in NATO for a while."

"This matter cannot be covered over with a simple apology," Erdogan added.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 21:39

'mas' likes to quote RT & APA - here is an alternate view of above RT story.
NATO apologizes after Turkey’s president shown as enemy during drill
17 Nov 2017 Suzan Fraser, The Associated Press

"...Details of the incident were sketchy. Erdogan said Ataturk’s picture and his own name were featured on an “enemy chart” during the drills. The individual who posted the material was described as a Norwegian civil contractor seconded by Norway, and not a NATO employee.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg issued a statement saying: “I apologize for the offense caused.” He said the incident was the result of an “individual’s actions” and didn’t reflect the views of the alliance.

He added that the individual was removed from the exercise and an investigation was underway. “It will be for the Norwegian authorities to decide on any disciplinary action,” Stoltenberg added. “Turkey is a valued NATO ally, which makes important contributions to allied security.”

Norwegian Defence Minister Frank Bakke-Jensen apologized for the incident. “The message does not reflect Norway’s views or policies and I apologize for the content of the message,” Bakke-Jensen said in a statement. He added that “Turkey is an important ally in NATO, and we value our good cooperation.”

The Joint Warfare Centre is a multinational NATO unit based in Stavanger, 186 miles southwest of Oslo. It is currently led by Maj. Gen. Andrzej Reudowicz of Poland. According to its website, it has a staff of 250 made up of civilians from 11 NATO member states, including Turkey.

In March, the Norwegian government caused fury in Turkey by granting political asylum to five Turkish officers based in Norway who had refused to return home after the failed July 2016 coup attempt in Turkey. The five officers said that they feared being arrested and tortured in Turkey."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/training-si ... ing-drill/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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mas

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 21:48

That's not an alternative, just the prelude to the response. Like I said, he's a loose cannon, probably the most unstable leader of any country and he's got some pretty stiff competition on that score at the moment :).
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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 22:42

My concern was with NATO and the story/NATO apology details.
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krorvik

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 23:04

Looks like a norwegian officer, with turkish background, is the offender on the military side. In addition, a civilian employee is said to have been a part.

Official apologies by norwegian defense secretary and NATO general secretary is likely to lay the official problem to rest - comms through regular channels does not seem to be affected.

Erdogan is sure to try milking it domestically though.
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optimist

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Unread post18 Nov 2017, 23:08

Indonesia had a similar dummy spit with the Aussies, this year. It seems to be part of life, that they don't want to be red force and such. :devil:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/indonesia-a ... tltai.html
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nutshell

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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 02:38

mas wrote:The Sultan is still fuming, perhaps he might leave NATO of his own accord ...

https://www.rt.com/news/410283-nato-nor ... y-erdogan/

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has rebuffed a NATO apology for what he called “impudence” during the alliance’s drills in Norway, where he was depicted on an “enemies chart.” The scandal led to the withdrawal of Turkish troops from the exercise.

On Friday, Ankara ordered its troops to pull out of NATO military games in Norway after the incumbent Turkish leader and Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of the modern Turkish state, appeared in an “enemy” list. Following the scandal, both NATO and Norway offered their apologies for the incident, saying that the message did not reflect their views.

“There can be no alliance like that," Erdogan said on Friday, adding that even the removal of those names would not change the decision. On Saturday, despite the officials’ apologies and affirmations, the insulted leader remained steadfast, saying that NATO cannot easily get away with the incident.

"Yesterday, you have witnessed the impudence at NATO exercises in Norway. There are some mistakes that cannot be committed by fools but only by vile people,” Erdogan said in a televised speech. He added that the incident shows “a reflection of a distorted point of view that we have observed in NATO for a while."

"This matter cannot be covered over with a simple apology," Erdogan added.


I'm afraid he won't gtfo any time soon :(
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popcorn

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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 02:51

Erdogan has POTUS on speed dial so he'll get his F-35s in all likelihood.
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rheonomic

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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 03:57

popcorn wrote:Erdogan has POTUS on speed dial so he'll get his F-35s in all likelihood.


Let's just include some copies of Luttwak's Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook as a bonus so they get it right next time.
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mas

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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 16:21

Turkey, not just me, being targeted: Erdoğan

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey ... gan-122653

p.s. they sure are an excitable paranoid lot.
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krorvik

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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 21:14

It's important to note that the last article points to a domestic rally. The rhethoric internationally is much more subdued (although worded to match the stronger language used for his own people).

Also, note that this seems to be of use in gathering support from opposition. Cue conspiracy theories ;)
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durahawk

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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 22:02

krorvik wrote:It's important to note that the last article points to a domestic rally. The rhethoric internationally is much more subdued (although worded to match the stronger language used for his own people).

Also, note that this seems to be of use in gathering support from opposition. Cue conspiracy theories ;)


Clearly, the only logical explanation is that Gullen has now begun to seize control of NATO itself in attempt to overthrow the Turkish government... all from from his apartment command center in Pennsylvania!
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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 22:05

Congress needs to get involved, and ban F-35 sales to Turkey, before it's too late. They are on their way out of NATO, and will be joining Russia in an alliance to dived the ME. They will pass on all F-35 technology, to Russia, and China. Trump might as well give an F-35 away to Putin, as a personal gift.
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