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Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 15:11
by jakobs
durahawk wrote:Not that I think Turkey should get the F-35, but did the US Government have any beefs when Greece acquired the S-300PMU's? Understand the HAF acquired them in a round about way from Cyprus.

That was also more of a political solution to keep peace between two Nato allies. I would guess US Government gave strong support for the deal. Also Greece haven't been using them, just keeping them in storage on Crete.

First test shots was not fired until only a couple of years ago.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 03:43
by spazsinbad
A bit of lite relief for those 'TURKEY PUNCHERS':

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2018, 14:47
by spazsinbad
Turkey Received Delivery Of Its First F-35 Aircraft
30 Jun 2018 Turkey Undersecretariat for Defence Industries

"Turkey, being a program partner under the F-35 project since its inception in 1999, received delivery of its first aircraft in a ceremony held in Fort Worth, USA. The F-35 aircraft, which the Turkish defense industry sector is actively involved in production, will remain in the USA for a while for the training of our pilots, and will start to arrive to the duty posts in our country starting from November 2019….

...The first received F-35 aircraft with tail number 18-0001 will be assigned to Luke Air Base in Arizona for use in pilot training. Activation work is already continuing at the Malatya 7th Main Jet Base Command which will be the first base where the F-35 aircraft will be deployed in Turkey and which also will host the Integrated Training Center where the pilot and maintenance training will be provided. Training activities will begin in country in 2020 following the arrival of the first aircraft in Turkey in November 2019."

Source: ... 5-aircraft

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2018, 14:53
by spazsinbad
Trump guarantees F-35 deliveries to Ankara, says Turkish minister
29 Jun 2019 Garrett Reim

"Turkey’s foreign minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu says in a TV interview that US president Donald Trump personally promised to ensure the delivery of the Lockheed Martin F-35A to his country....

...Trump told Turkey’s government that he would take the steps necessary to make sure the NATO ally received the aircraft it ordered from Lockheed Martin, according to the country’s foreign minister in an interview with Turkish television station NTV on 29 June.

The National Security Council confirmed that the US president spoke with Erdoğan, but declined to confirm or deny that the F-35 was part of the conversation...."

Source: ... ur-449849/

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 09:00
by barrelnut
It would be kinda difficult to block Turkey getting their F-35's. Turkey is a partner nation to the program and has thus paid development costs, and is a NATO ally after all.

If Turkey cannot be trusted for having too close connections with Russia, they should be kicked out of NATO first IMHO.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 09:33
by Corsair1963
Turkey has a lot to loose in any split with the West. So, my guess they would back down. If, push comes to shove.. :wink:

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 03:51
by spazsinbad
Two Page PDF of article attached.
Lightning storm
10-16 Jul 2018 GARRETT REIM

"Turkey’s acquisition of a Russian anti-aircraft system has led US opponents to seek a block on F-35 sales to the country,
bringing its participation in the programme into question...""

Source: Flight International | 10-16 July 2018 Magazine

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 17 Jul 2018, 10:20
by spazsinbad
:doh: :devil: Turkey Turkey Turkey - Gobble Gobble Gobble this offer up - PUHLEEZ. :doh: :mrgreen:

Another kerfuffle here: ... of-450319/
US Still Hopes to Sway Turkey to Buy Patriot Missiles over S-400
16 Jul 2018 Oriana Pawlyk

"FARNBOROUGH, England -- While there is no formal deal in place, U.S. officials are still hoping to convince Turkey to buy the Patriot missile system. The catch? Turkey would need to dump its newly inked deal with Russia to procure the S-400 surface-to-air missile system.

"Ultimately, we are concerned that by purchasing these systems from the Russians, it will be supportive of some of the least good behavior that we have seen from them in various places, including in Europe but also elsewhere," said Tina Kaidanow, acting assistant secretary for the Bureau of Political Military Affairs at the State Department....

...It is unclear which versions are being pitched to Turkey; however, Raytheon earlier this year hinted there is another country interested in buying the PAC-3 MSE advanced system, according to a report from Defense News last week....

...Kaidanow said customers should consider future transactions when dealing with adversary systems. "That's true of a number of our partners. It's not just ... the Turks, as I said," she said.

According to the Daily Sabah Diplomacy, a Turkish news site, Turkey has not ruled out purchase of the Patriot system. Unidentified officials who spoke to the paper said that while no deal is in place, conversations have been had about the system before. But the Patriot isn't a suitable alternative to the S-400, the officials told Daily Sabah.

In March, Aksam, a Turkish newspaper, reported that conversations were expected to continue on a potential Patriot buy."

Source: ... s-400.html

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 17 Jul 2018, 14:57
by spazsinbad
MOre YadaYadaYada:

Raytheon missile defense chief: Turkey Patriot decision ‘is all political’ Jill Aitoro 16 Jul 2018 ... political/

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 17 Jul 2018, 15:28
by spazsinbad
Perhaps the turkeymens are holding out for da GaN? No NOT AFgannyStan.

GaN Radar To Enhance Patriot Air Defense System 17 Jul 2018 David Donald ... nse-system

Photo: "Raytheon has amassed around 3,000 hours run-time on the prototype GaN radar for Patriot." ... an-pic.gif

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 21 Jul 2018, 23:05
by spazsinbad
DOD opposes removing Turkey from F-35 programme, citing supply chain disruption
20 Jul 2018 Garrett Reim

"In a letter sent to US Representative Mac Thornberry, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, US Secretary of Defense James Mattis acknowledged concerns about the Turkish government, while opposing US lawmakers’ efforts to remove the country from the F-35 Lightning II programme, saying the loss of the nation from the supply chain would delay delivery of some aircraft for up to two years....

...Until now, the Defense Department has been silent on lawmaker opposition to Turkey’s involvement in the F-35 programme. “Removing Turkey could trigger a supply chain disruption for the US military and our partners, as well as increase other program costs,” Mattis says in his letter to the House Armed Services Committee Chairman on 7 July. “If the Turkish supply chain was disrupted today, it would result in an aircraft production break delaying delivery of 50-75 F-35s, and would take approximately 18-24 months to re-source parts and recover.”

In co-ordination with Northrop Grumman, the main fuselage manufacturer for the F-35, Turkish Aerospace Industries manufactures and assembles centre fuselages, produces composite skins and weapon bay doors, and fibre placement composite air inlet ducts. In total, ten different Turkish firms make parts for every F-35 manufactured....

...The House Armed Services Committee decline to comment on the letter from Mattis."

Source: ... it-450558/

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 22 Jul 2018, 14:15
by madrat
A general more concerned with the supply chain than security implications?

Doesn't sound right at all.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 01:38
by spazsinbad
Congress Halts F-35 Turkey Transfers, Punts On Space Force
23 Jul 2018 Colin Clark

"CAPITOL HILL The Senate and House have come together on a $716 billion defense spending report that would prohibit the transfer of F-35 jets to Turkey, expand American aid to Asian allies to counter China and add ships and other technology funding lines above the White House request....

...The language on Turkey will likely anger Ankara, which plans to buy the Russian-made S-400 air defense system despite loud objections from fellow NATO members who say that the system will compromise the alliance’s security. The purchase from Russia is also putting Turkish participation in the F-35 program in jeopardy, as Congress is ready to stop all deliveries of the plane to Turkey.

“We’re trying to make a point that is broader than just the F-35,” said one aide, adding that the report is “taking a look at all of the major FMS sales pending with Turkey, and requires an assessment of the overall U.S. strategic relation with Turkey.”

The two houses of Congress have also come to an agreement that countries must show a path toward breaking their military relationship with Moscow before being granted a waiver, while continuing the ban on any military-to-military interactions between the United States and Russia. That one seems aimed straight at Turkey and at India, which continues to buy considerable amounts of Russian hardware....

...A helpful footnote: although the Pentagon almost always respects language in the NDAA report, it does have not the force of law, as does the National Defense Authorization Act." [once again bullshite baffles brains]

Source: ... ace-force/

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 19:44
by sunstersun
**** a space force, give me a cyber force with laxed recruitment laws.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 20:08
by kimjongnumbaun
sunstersun wrote:**** a space force, give me a cyber force with laxed recruitment laws.

Space and cyber are considered the same realm for the military.