The Turkey problem

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23285
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post26 May 2018, 05:49

Turkey threatens retaliation if new bill stops F-35 sale [BEST READ ALL at SOURCE]
25 May 2018 Joe Gould

"WASHINGTON — The Turkish government has vowed reprisals if the U.S. Congress passes a defense policy bill that prevents the sale of Lockheed Martin-made F-35 fighter jets to Ankara. The Senate Armed Services Committee on Thursday passed its version of the $716 billion National Defense Authorization Act with language that directs the Pentagon to submit a plan to Congress to remove the NATO ally from participation in the F-35 program.

“According to agreement, everybody has a mission and we expect everyone to fulfill these missions,” said Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesman Hami Aksoy, Ahval reports. “Such steps are breach of the spirit of our alliance with the U.S. As our minister stated, if such steps are taken, we will have no other choice but to respond accordingly.”

Turkish Foreign Affairs Minister Mevlüt Cavuşoğlu said earlier this month the country would retaliate, after the House version of the NDAA was unveiled. That bill contains a broader prohibition on any foreign military sales to Turkey until the Pentagon reports to Congress on the impact of U.S.-Turkey tensions....

...“There is tremendous hesitancy [about] transferring sensitive F-35 planes and technology to a nation who has purchased a Russian air defense system designed to shoot these very planes down,” Shaheen [Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H.] said in a statement. “This amendment is meant to give the Departments of State and Defense the guidance and congressional support they need to ensure that this does not happen at this time.”...

...Secretary of State Mike Pompeo testified Thursday on Capitol Hill that he had spoken with Cavuşoğlu in recent days to push for Brunson’s return and implore Ankara not to buy the S-400. Turkey’s capacity to access the F-35, he said, “is still very much a live issue.”

U.S. Ambassador to NATO Kay Bailey Hutchison called the purchase “very serious” at a public forum on Wednesday. “They’re a very important partner,” she said of Turkey. “But no partner in NATO has ever purchased a Russian system that is not capable of being interoperable with our NATO systems.”"

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... f-35-sale/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

zerion

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 649
  • Joined: 25 Jan 2014, 01:47
  • Location: Everywhere like such as...

Unread post28 May 2018, 00:12

Israel Concerned About F-35 Sale to Turkey, Expects U.S. to Withhold 'Upgrades

Israeli officials are concerned about a deal to provide F-35 stealth fighter jets to Turkey, and the issue is currently being discussed with the United States. A senior Israeli defense official says Israel would like to remain the only country in the Middle East with the F-35 in order to keep its military qualitative edge and out of fear that details about its capabilities would leak to neighboring countries...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... -1.6119034
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23285
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post28 May 2018, 08:59

Who is going to take this seriously - war/conflict with words only always fun. Operative word MAY yep merry month of.
:devil: BEWARE THE IDEAS of MAY! :doh:
Yeni Safak: Turkey may switch to Su-57
28 May 2018 Alert5

"Turkish newspaper Yeni Safak says Ankara may switch to buying the Russian Su-57 if Washington decides to suspend the delivery of F-35."

I'll only post Alert5 English and let someone else translate the Turkish link:
https://www.yenisafak.com/gundem/s-400d ... ri-3344132

Source: http://alert5.com/2018/05/28/yeni-safak ... -to-su-57/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

loke

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 767
  • Joined: 14 Nov 2008, 19:07

Unread post28 May 2018, 10:41

IF sales of F-35 to Turkey is stopped, then I would actually not be surprised to see Turkey purchasing a few Su-57... After all they are in the process of buying S-400 SAMs from Russia, in spite of several warnings from the US and other allies.

However some positive things have happened recently, seems they reached agreement on Manbij:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/us-tur ... map-132415

If Turkey could also free Mr. Brunson, and cancel the S-400 purchase then we would definitely be back on track!
Offline

loke

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 767
  • Joined: 14 Nov 2008, 19:07

Unread post28 May 2018, 11:00

Although the Manbij deal is positive, there are other signs of tensions between Turkey and the US: Iran!

Turkey is an unlikely regional partner for the United States as it bids to contain Iran, experts and observers told Ahval, as the latest policy shift under the Trump administration drops the Iran nuclear deal and adopts a more anti-Iranian policy.

Turkish officials and businessmen have been involved in sanction-breaking deals with Iran in the recent past. Turkey has also moved close to Iran as the two countries, along with Russia, co-operate in efforts to solve the ongoing Syrian conflict, holding peace talks in Astana that undermine Western-backed peace talks in Geneva.

On the other hand, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, announcing his new Iran strategy on 21 May said, “We will track down Iranian operatives and their Hizballah proxies operating around the world and we will crush them. Iran will never again have carte blanche to dominate the Middle East.”

The Trump administration, known as one of the most anti-Iran administrations in recent decades, is now joined by Mike Pompeo, who has already threatened Iranian proxies in the region. His approach to Turkish affairs, remains unclear, though when it became clear Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had overcame the coup attempt of July 2016, Pompeo took to twitter accusing Erdoğan of turning Turkey into an Islamist dictatorship.

“I don’t believe that Pompeo has any illusions about Erdogan,” Jonathan Schanzer, Vice President of research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington think tank, told Ahval.

“I have yet to see a statement from the new Secretary of State about Turkey and its foreign policy,” Schanzer continued. “My hope is that he takes a tougher stance, and makes demands of Ankara to return to the NATO fold. Without a clear message along these lines, we are almost certain to see Turkey drift further from Washington and the rest of the West."

https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/turkey- ... n-strategy
Offline
User avatar

blindpilot

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1219
  • Joined: 01 Mar 2013, 18:21
  • Location: Colorado

Unread post28 May 2018, 17:07

loke wrote:...
“I don’t believe that Pompeo has any illusions about Erdogan,” Jonathan Schanzer, Vice President of research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington think tank, told Ahval.

“I have yet to see a statement from the new Secretary of State about Turkey and its foreign policy,” Schanzer continued. “My hope is that he takes a tougher stance, and makes demands of Ankara to return to the NATO fold. Without a clear message along these lines, we are almost certain to see Turkey drift further from Washington and the rest of the West."



Sometimes it's not inspired diplomatic maneuvering to some desired result. Rather it is aligning diplomatic policy with reality, such that the best result based in that reality is achieved.

In this case, if the controlling forces/people of Turkey want to return to Ataturk's vision, then the US/NATO needs to encourage/enable that to unfold. If they desire to return to Ottoman Glory, then once again history will repeat itself, and Russia will chew them up and spit them out, enslave the deluded Ottoman's.

Until the answer to "what is real," is known I'd be cautious what we sell them. If they want Russian slavery, it may just be better to cut bait now, feed them to the Russians, and let both countries wrestle in the swamp and mud of that reality.

If that is what is "real" then it would probably be best they didn't have latest block squadrons of F-35 ... at least not without an ALIS off switch. I'd probably start a rumor that there was such a switch, and/or that there was a "specific frequency radar echo strip, designed by Israeli Mossad" embedded in the wings of Turkey's air frames, just to put a nagging doubt in their minds, and trigger them to cancel the orders. Doesn't matter whether it was true in that case. It would remind them, who built the design... wrote the software ... and it wasn't them... Time to kick the little tin horn "Sultan's" backside. There are still Turks who long for Ataturk's noble vision. I hope we begin to see them emerge in the next election .. but honestly, my friends who left Turkey recently, are not encouraged.

MHO anyway,
BP
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3440
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post29 May 2018, 13:01

If Israel wants Turkey's F-35's blocked, it WILL happen.

And sure, let them have the SU-57. They'll probably get a dozen.... in 2025. Here's an idea: Do they have the kind of $ needed to partner with Russia in developing it? If so, they'll probably find out what the Indians did. Or, in another 10 years it'll be a lot better. It's a safe bet though that in 10 years it'll be a lot more expensive too..
Offline

vilters

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1098
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2009, 00:16

Unread post29 May 2018, 13:57

As long as Turkey stays under Islamic dictatorship, there won't be any F-35.

Simple
Effective
Everybody happy

They might buy F-57?
Great what does scrap aluminium cost these days?
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23285
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post30 May 2018, 11:28

US in Talks with Turkey on Purchase of Russian S-400, Wilson Says
29 May 2018 STEVE HIRSCH​

"​The Trump Administration is negotiating with Turkey over the plan by that country, a NATO member, to buy the S-400 missile system from Russia, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson said Tuesday.

Army Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti, head of US European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee in March that while Turkey had announced plans to buy the system, there was still time to convince Turkish leaders a better system was available.

Taking questions during a presentation at the Atlantic Council in Washington, D.C., Wilson did not provide details of current bilateral talks led by Defense and State Department officials on the issue, but said the move “does present some operational problems that we’re discussing with Turkey … particularly as it relates to the location of advanced aircraft in Turkey,” including US-made aircraft such as the F-35.

“We would not want to have that aircraft close to the S-400,” she said. “Those discussions are going on with Turkey, and I think that we are hopeful that that can be resolved before they would take delivery of that aircraft into Turkey itself,” she said...."

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... -Says.aspx
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

loke

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 767
  • Joined: 14 Nov 2008, 19:07

Unread post30 May 2018, 12:35

loke wrote:However some positive things have happened recently, seems they reached agreement on Manbij:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/us-tur ... map-132415


Interestingly, the US denies that an agreement has been reached on Manbij:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/us-say ... yet-132564

Turchia quo vadis?
Offline
User avatar

durahawk

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2012, 20:35

Unread post30 May 2018, 16:42

mixelflick wrote:If Israel wants Turkey's F-35's blocked, it WILL happen.


... under what precedent exactly? Isreal did not want the Saudis to get the Eagle either. Didn't stop the show there.
Offline

geokav

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2013, 19:09

Unread post30 May 2018, 16:52

Offline

tsl256

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 28
  • Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 20:22

Unread post30 May 2018, 19:26

geokav wrote:MiG-35 maybe...?


<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1000984876059906048</span>


If the SU-57 is denied to Turkey, then they will most likely go for the J-31, which will likely be combat ready before the SU-57.
Offline
User avatar

durahawk

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2012, 20:35

Unread post30 May 2018, 19:41

tsl256 wrote:
geokav wrote:MiG-35 maybe...?


<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1000984876059906048</span>


If the SU-57 is denied to Turkey, then they will most likely go for the J-31, which will likely be combat ready before the SU-57.


All the Erdoganistas on this forum keep touting the EJ200 powered TFX as an F-35 slayer anyhow. Why not just let them pursue that.

Not to worry though,Turkey will get the F-35... If there is one thing US Congress has a firm crasp on, it's incompetence.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3440
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post31 May 2018, 13:46

durahawk wrote:
mixelflick wrote:If Israel wants Turkey's F-35's blocked, it WILL happen.


... under what precedent exactly? Israel did not want the Saudis to get the Eagle either. Didn't stop the show there.


The pro-Israel lobby in the US isn't exactly a secret. Big money and big politics will block that sale. RSAF F-15's are going to show up on Israeli radar like flying CVN's. 100 F-35's pointed their way is quite another matter. Forget 100, if only 1 F-35 falls into the wrong hands, it threatens to undermine their entire fleet.

The decade long qualitative edge they maintain will be erased - instantly.

They will not stand for it..
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: steve2267, white_lightning35 and 9 guests