The Turkey problem

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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element1loop

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Unread post18 Jan 2018, 01:29

Maybe I should have emphasised more the need for any changes to be exclusively rationally examined, per the military alliance implications and ramifications?

Perhaps too hopey.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Jan 2018, 23:27

4 Turkish firms bid for F-35, Air Force network-linking contract
23 Jan 2018 Burak Ege Bekdil

"ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey’s defense procurement agency has named four local bidders for a critical contract that aims to combine all information systems on the country’s planned F-35 Lightning II jets to the Turkish Air Force’s system network....

...Under the program, the successful contender will connect the information systems installed on the F-35 fighter aircraft with the Air Force’s information systems network, otherwise known as HvBS.

“The program involves safe connection of information systems elements between the F-35 aircraft and the Air Force’s information systems network as well as safe sharing of classified information between these systems,” SSM said.

SSM’s department for cybersecurity and electronic warfare systems will be in charge of the program....

...Industry sources said the program to build critical links between the F-35 aircraft and Turkey’s combined Air Force command network probably won’t cost hundreds of millions of dollars, but it was tagged as “strategic” by the procurement authority.

But some foreign observers remain cautious. “Naturally there will be limits to the Turkish work as part of this program,” according to a London-based aerospace specialist. “The Turks may not be able to go as far as they wish to.”"

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... -contract/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 05:18

US diplomat threatens Turkey's F-35 role in S-400 spat
19 Apr 2018 Stephen Trimble

"A senior US diplomat has threatened to use the Lockheed Martin F-35 programme as a retaliatory tool against Turkey for acquiring a sophisticated air defence system from Russia. Assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs Wess Mitchell’s remarks during 18 April hearing in Congress escalated a simmering confrontation with a NATO ally and combat partner against ISIS, which agreed to acquire the Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumf system even as it plans to take delivery of its first F-35A later this year.

Breaking from a string of ambiguous statements by the Trump Administration, Mitchell’s testimony made specific threats of potential retaliation if the Turkish government follows through on the acquisition of the S-400 system. “Ankara claims to have agreed to purchase the Russian S-400 missile system, which could potentially lead to sanctions under section 231 of [countering America’s adversaries through sanctions act] and adversely impact Turkey’s participation in the F-35 programme,” Mitchell says.

The S-400 is Russia's most advanced surface-to-air missile system on the export market. It's advertised with an "anti-stealth range" up to 81nm (150km).

In the past, US officials have complained that Turkey's S-400 systems would not be interoperable with NATO's networks. But the acquisition also raised concerns that Turkey's possession of the S-400 and the F-35 could be used to compromise the latter, with Russia and its allies gaining invaluable intelligence.

It was not clear specifically how Turkey’s role in the F-35 programme could be affected, but the Trump Administration has several tools at its disposal...." [not described]

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... sp-447859/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 13:56

We would be crazy to sell the F-35 to the Turks. Sorry, but that's just how it is...
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old_rn

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Unread post22 Apr 2018, 08:07

Why are not the Russians worrying about the west (via a NATO member, Turkey) gaining intel on their much vaunted S400?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post22 Apr 2018, 08:33

I give in. What goes on in Russia - in English - that we can know about? The PAK-FA is crap? DUH. Russia STRONK is all.
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sferrin

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Unread post22 Apr 2018, 17:04

old_rn wrote:Why are not the Russians worrying about the west (via a NATO member, Turkey) gaining intel on their much vaunted S400?



Who knows? Who cares?
"There I was. . ."
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durahawk

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Unread post22 Apr 2018, 21:52

old_rn wrote:Why are not the Russians worrying about the west (via a NATO member, Turkey) gaining intel on their much vaunted S400?


I think it's a safe assumption that the export version of the SA-21 is not identical in its full capabilities to its Russian domestic counterpart.
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popcorn

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Unread post27 Apr 2018, 04:22

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1HX3NO

Three U.S. senators move to block F-35 transfers to Turkey

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three U.S. senators introduced a measure on Thursday aimed at blocking the transfer of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to Turkey, a NATO ally and one of nine partner nations involved in producing the high-tech, radar-evading aircraft.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post28 Apr 2018, 04:35

US senators introduce bill to block F-35 delivery to Turkey
26 Apr 2018 Garrett Reim

"A bi-partisan group of US senators introduced a bill on 26 April to prevent the transfer of the Lockheed Martin F-35A to Turkey. The bill would also block Turkey’s role as a maintenance depot for the aircraft, according to a press release issued by the senators....

...Turkey, a NATO ally and partner in fighting ISIS, has ordered a total of 100 conventional take-off and landing F-35As. The first batch of 14 are already purchased, with deliveries scheduled to begin later this year. A total of 30 F-35As are scheduled for delivery to the Turkish Air Force by the end of 2022....

...The move by the senators comes one week after a senior US diplomat threatened to use the Lockheed Martin F-35 programme as a retaliatory tool against Turkey for acquiring a sophisticated air defence system from Russia, the Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumf system. The S-400 is Russia's most advanced surface-to-air missile system on the export market. It's advertised with an "anti-stealth range" up to 81nm (150km)....

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-448084/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post28 Apr 2018, 10:01

One door doesn't close and another door does open - who'da thunk?
Mattis Seeks Waivers for US Allies, Partners to Buy Russian Arms
27 Apr 2018 Richard Sisk

"Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is arguing for waivers to let U.S. allies and partners avoid sanctions for buying Russian arms. The move could include giving Turkey and India a pass on the purchase of advanced S-400 anti-air defense systems.

At a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing Thursday, Mattis said "national security exceptions" must be made to the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) in the long-term interests of the U.S. "There are nations in the world who are trying to turn away from formerly Russian-sourced weapons and systems," he said.

Those same nations, he said, currently need to keep the Moscow supply line open to replenish their legacy systems. "We only need to look at India, Vietnam and some others to recognize that eventually we're going to penalize ourselves" in the future by strict adherence to CAATSA, Mattis said. He pointed to Indonesia, which has become increasingly vital to the Trump administration's overall South Asia strategy....

...Mattis called on Congress to include "national security exceptions" in the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal 2019 but acknowledged that Russia's sale of the S-400 systems is "causing a lot of concern." Russian President Vladimir Putin was in Ankara earlier this month to firm up the proposed $3 billion sale of the S-400 systems, billed as "F-35 killers," to NATO ally Turkey.

The U.S. and NATO allies have warned Turkey that the S-400s are not compatible with other NATO systems, but Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has pressed on with the deal. Last week, State Department Assistant Secretary Wess Mitchell told the House Foreign Affairs Committee that Turkey is risking sanctions under CAATSA, adding that it could also be cut off from buying the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter...."

Source: https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2018/0 ... -arms.html
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post04 May 2018, 14:52

Onenewsnow posted an article that shares information which should concern US interests.

https://onenewsnow.com/persecution/2018 ... -criminals

Article starts with:

After calling the European Union (EU) to prosecute critics of Islam as criminals, Turkey is no longer considered a moderate Muslim nation that embraces Western influences, but one that now wants Western nations to enforce its harsh Islamic law against “infidels.”
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Unread post06 May 2018, 12:25

The legislation would also ask the Defense Department to provide Congress with a report on the relationship between the United States and Turkey, and would block the sale of major defense equipment until the report was complete.

Although Turkey is a NATO ally, relations between Ankara and Washington recently have deteriorated. Turkey supported the U.S. fight against Islamic State, but has become increasingly worried about U.S. backing for Kurdish fighters in Syria.

The NDAA is several steps from becoming law. The final version of the legislation will be a compromise reached later this year by House and Senate negotiators between separate versions of the bill approved in the two chambers.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1I52KW

What are the odds that "sale of major defense equipment" to Turkey will be blocked until the report is completed? Does this have to be turned into law first?

In any case Turkey has already responded:

Ankara: Turkey will retaliate if the US enacts a proposed law that would halt weapons sales to the country, foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Sunday.

Lawmakers in the US House of Representatives released details on Friday of a $717 billion annual defence policy bill, including a measure to temporarily halt weapons sales to Turkey.

In an interview with broadcaster CNN Turk, Cavusoglu said the measures in the bill were wrong, illogical and not fitting between the NATO allies.

“If the US imposes sanctions on us or takes such a step, Turkey will absolutely retaliate,” Cavusoglu said. “What needs to be done is the US needs to let go of this.”


https://thewire.in/world/turkey-says-it ... apon-sales

This does not look very promising to me.
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Unread post06 May 2018, 13:17

The 62-page indictment of U.S. pastor Andrew Brunson, who faces a possible life sentence in Turkey on charges of membership of banned terrorist organisations, such as the Gülen movement, accused of plotting the July 2016 coup - cites a video of a Middle Eastern dish which is popular among members of the movement, citizen times website reports.

‘’Maklube "is a dish cooked by members of the organization at meetings and religious gatherings at the FETÖ/PDY armed terrorist organization's cell houses," the article quotes the indictment as saying, while highlighting that a video on the rice and meat dish sent by Brunson’s daughter to him is actual evidence in Brunson’s indictment.

The same indictment also says all Christian churches in the U.S. are directed by an organization called CAMA, which includes the FBI and CIA as members, that Mormons make up nearly 40 percent of members of the United States' armed forces serving overseas, and that information someone gathered about gas stations in Turkey shows Brunson was involved in an effort to overthrow the Turkish government, according to the article.


https://ahvalnews.com/andrew-brunson/ev ... o-analysis

We live in interesting times.
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white_lightning35

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Unread post06 May 2018, 15:36

How long is it until erdogan gets the s#it bombed out of him? Goodness I hate the realities of geopolitics that will stop that from happening. Maybe he should receive the bin Laden drink: two shots and a splash of water.
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