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Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2017, 04:08
by weasel1962
madrat wrote:Turkey has twisted Europeans against themselves with their treacherous secret treatises. How do the same people basically throw a continent into civil wars time and time again without being called out on it? It's only been two decades since they unsettled Yugoslavia.


Oh so now we blame Turkey for balkanization. Strange, someone forgot to tell the State department that because I don't see any mention of Turkey anywhere....

https://history.state.gov/milestones/19 ... yugoslavia

Might as well blame Turkey for Jerusalem because if they had kept the Ottoman empire intact, none of this mess Israel is in today would have happened.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:17
by spazsinbad
Turkey wants to link F-35 jets to its Air Force network
09 Jan 2018 Burak Ege Bekdil

"ANKARA, Turkey —Turkey’s defense procurement agency has officially launched a competition to combine all information systems on the country’s planned F-35 Lightning II fifth-generation multirole fighter jets to the Turkish Air Forces’ system network. The Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM in its Turkish acronym) dubs the program F-35/Air Force Information System Integration Project.

Under the program, the successful contender will connect the information systems installed on the F-35 fighter aircraft with the Air Forces’ information systems network, otherwise known as HvBS. “The program involves safe connection of information systems elements between the F-35 aircraft and the Air Forces’ information systems network as well as safe sharing of classified information between these systems,” SSM said.

SSM has asked bidders to suggest solutions by Feb. 28. SSM’s department for cybersecurity and electronic warfare systems will be in charge of the program.

Turkey is a partner in the U.S.-led, multinational Joint Strike Fighter program. Under the JSF program, Turkey has committed to procure a total of 116 aircraft. Turkey placed its first JSF order in 2014 under its low-rate initial production 10 program, and its second order in October 2016...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/01 ... e-network/

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:32
by SpudmanWP
Northrop should just sell them Freedom550 terminals and then let them build the rest of the network.

http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabili ... rminal.pdf

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:32
by steve2267
How does this work if Turkey is procuring the Russian S-400 SAM system?

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:36
by SpudmanWP
steve2267 wrote:How does this work if Turkey is procuring the Russian S-400 SAM system?


Something has to act as a central data fusion engine, even if the F-35 is not part of it. That engine will gather data from all over the existing battlefield and add new systems like S-400/F-35. Each system will then in turn be able to talk to the engine to get an updated picture if the battlefield in it's area.

Since there is a central engine, the systems do not talk to each other, the S-400 will not be communicating with the F-35 and vice versa.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:38
by loke
weasel1962 wrote:We may never know....but in that perspective, very legitimate case to blame Mueller and the Dems for this mess.

What!?

Flynn and several others screw up and you blame Mueller and the Democrats? I hope you are joking...

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:43
by loke
SpudmanWP wrote:
steve2267 wrote:How does this work if Turkey is procuring the Russian S-400 SAM system?


Something has to act as a central data fusion engine, even if the F-35 is not part of it. That engine will gather data from all over the existing battlefield and add new systems like S-400/F-35. Each system will then in turn be able to talk to the engine to get an updated picture if the battlefield in it's area.

Since there is a central engine, the systems do not talk to each other, the S-400 will not be communicating with the F-35 and vice versa.

NATO has already made it clear that the S-400 systems will not be integrated, and this is not limited to the F-35.

Perhaps this is why Turkey is building SAM systems with France and Italy?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turk ... SKBN1D829I

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2018 ... nt-project

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:46
by SpudmanWP
I think that is talking about direct integration, like putting Link-16 on the S-400 system.

A fusion engine solves a lot of the problem because the kind of data that flows from the engine to the S-400 system can be regulated.

Btw, The quote I found said "could not be integrated" rather than "will not be". It's more of a technical issue rather than a political one.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:51
by steve2267
SpudmanWP wrote:Something has to act as a central data fusion engine, even if the F-35 is not part of it. That engine will gather data from all over the existing battlefield and add new systems like S-400/F-35. Each system will then in turn be able to talk to the engine to get an updated picture if the battlefield in it's area.

Since there is a central engine, the systems do not talk to each other, the S-400 will not be communicating with the F-35 and vice versa.


OK, but given how the US (NSA / CIA / Israeli Unit 8200) allegedly orchestrated the Stuxnet attack on the Iranian Natanz facility... do you really want to give the Russians such a direct attack vector from S-400 systems into the central nervous system of a Nato ally? Or does Nato just accept the assurances of Putin that he would never authorize such a thing?

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 22:55
by SpudmanWP
Data fusion engine or not, the S-400 system will be plugged into the Turkish defense network at some level, that ship has sailed.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 02:07
by sunstersun
has turkey really committed to 116 F-35s?

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 02:36
by spazsinbad
LM Fast Facts & Program of Record: https://www.f35.com/global/participation/turkey say 100 is the official number - however politicians can say a lot of things that are not set in stone eh. Just ask Canadafukians - how are YOU doin'? Eh.

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 03:35
by sunstersun
guess they are already factoring in the 16 F-35B's :P
:doh:

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 06:33
by tincansailor
Kill the F-35 sale to Turkey before the situation gets more out of control. This will damage NATO, and other allied countries national security on so many levels. Losing 116 F-35 sales is of no consequence, the market will only grow, and more then make up for the difference. Someone in charge has to start using some brains, and get a strategic sense. Can McMasters kill this deal on his way out of the White House?

Re: The Turkey problem

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 15:30
by mtrman
tincansailor wrote:Kill the F-35 sale to Turkey before the situation gets more out of control. This will damage NATO, and other allied countries national security on so many levels. Losing 116 F-35 sales is of no consequence, the market will only grow, and more then make up for the difference. Someone in charge has to start using some brains, and get a strategic sense. Can McMasters kill this deal on his way out of the White House?


@tincansailor;
You are going full speed on your very subjective and Turkish/Muslim hatred comments. I say this, because in this thread, you had already posted a lot of BS even about long past history with a lot of lies. I hope I was/will able to expose your those hatred lies.

It is unbelievable that you can mention such nonsense that Turkey will buy the F-35s and sell critical info to the Russians, etc. Are you a child? Yes, U.S. deep state is openly and blatantly betraying Turkey by openly and blatantly supporting a pure Marxist/Communist/Terrorist group (YPG/PKK) which has been harming Turkey for more than 30 years. But even under this terrible circumstance, any of ranked officials or politicians in Turkey would do such a childish thing.

1- Turkey is still a strong NATO ally,
2- Nothing has changed in her foundations.

Purchasing a Russian missile defense system to meet her needs does not mean that above two bullets have changed. If Turkey buys F-35 then it means all the necessary sensitivity will be kept.

For the technical part, I think Spudman has nailed it;

SpudmanWP wrote:
steve2267 wrote:How does this work if Turkey is procuring the Russian S-400 SAM system?


Something has to act as a central data fusion engine, even if the F-35 is not part of it. That engine will gather data from all over the existing battlefield and add new systems like S-400/F-35. Each system will then in turn be able to talk to the engine to get an updated picture if the battlefield in it's area.

Since there is a central engine, the systems do not talk to each other, the S-400 will not be communicating with the F-35 and vice versa.