Swiss Lightning?

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

viper12

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 251
  • Joined: 28 Jun 2017, 14:58

Unread post09 Jan 2019, 20:44

That's truly some next-level comedy gold !
Everytime you don't tell the facts, you make Putin stronger.

Everytime you're hit by Dunning-Kruger, you make Putin stronger.
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2021
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post09 Jan 2019, 20:56

viper12 wrote:That's truly some next-level comedy gold !


LoL! It almost makes Canada look good :mrgreen:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
Offline

alex_f

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 67
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2014, 08:25

Unread post10 Jan 2019, 16:05

noth wrote:They've even suggested buying a transport plane such as a C-295 instead of buying new fighter aircraft "because that's more urgent to assist the Swisscoy (Swiss troops assisting in Kosovo) and delivering international aid or disaster relief".

Except that 20 years ago they voted against that proposal, calling it unnecessary expenditure.


well, to be fair, we still haven't got a transport plane, and if something happenes in the world, we have to politely ask our neighbours, if we kindly may use their transport capacities... even Austria has some C-130, which we already used. Even to supply our own troups we have to charter commercial planes. A bit embarrassing, IMHO.

and they (SP) voted against the budget, not because of the transport plane, but for other reasons. The SVP (right wing, which is always against anything which sonds "international") voted against the budget too, exactly because of the transport plane, and combining the two nays on the left and right hand side, but for different reasons, the budget got slammed. So, no transport plane. But not because of the SP, which would have been outvoted anyway, if they were the only party against it.

Some background about that voting (sorry, german only): https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/parlament- ... mm/4416020
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2021
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post10 Jan 2019, 19:32

Thanks for the heads up alex_f :thumb:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
Offline

hythelday

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:43
  • Location: Estonia

Unread post31 Jan 2019, 00:13

Maybe it has gone a bit under the radar, but New Swiss Fighter Aircraft is moving along:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 73762.html
(original in german only: https://www.vbs.admin.ch/content/vbs-in ... 73762.html)

Usual suspect have so far showed up: Eurofighter, F/A-18 Super Hornet, Rafale, F-35A, Gripen E.

The layout of the evaluation is as follows:
February - March 2019
- Specialists from Armasuisse (gov procurement agency) and Swiss Air Force test the aircraft in the simulators
- Product support audits, where "air forces of the producing countries show how the aircraft are operated, maintained; how the training takes place" (Eurofighter is trouble here because the Swiss list Germans as producers, which means Luftwaffe get to show off how they maintain those 4 Typhoons out a hundred :devil: )
April - July 2019
- Combat aircraft will be subjected to flight and ground testing in Payerne (air base). (Gripen E is in trouble here because how many operationally equipped Es will be available within the next three months?)
Second half of 2020
- Findings from the analysis and testing phase will be summarized separately for Armasuisse in collaboration with the Army Staff, Air Force, Army Logistics Base and Leadership Support Base(Führungsunterstützungsbasis?) in expert reports
- The technical reports also serve to determine the required fleet size for each type of aircraft (Which means the number of fighters purchased will depend not only on the price but also capability, just to forestall any 4,000$/hr posts)
Offline

noth

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: 17 Sep 2005, 14:16

Unread post08 Apr 2019, 20:06

Swiss MoD held a press conference today to announce that they're kicking off the ground and flight evaluations this week. Schedule is as follows:

Airbus, Germany, Eurofighter: Weeks 15 & 16
Boeing, United States, F/A-18 Super Hornet: Weeks 17 & 18
Dassault, France, Rafale: Weeks 20 & 21
Lockheed Martin, United States, F-35A: Weeks 23 & 24
Saab, Sweden, Gripen E: Weeks 25 & 26

They're being very strict on how the evaluations are held and separate teams will evaluate each aircraft and will not be allowed to communicate with other teams till the process is over. Companies are forbidden from nearly all forms of lobbying apart from presentations at air shows, and if found trying to badmouth opponents, they risk being ejected from the competition.

As to whether this will end up any differently than from 2012, I have no idea, although the fact that Typhoon & Rafale are known to be up for replacement in the post 2030 window, as is the F-18E, is playing quite a part in all this.
Offline

f4u7_corsair

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 127
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2015, 17:28

Unread post08 Apr 2019, 22:10

noth wrote:As to whether this will end up any differently than from 2012, I have no idea, although the fact that Typhoon & Rafale are known to be up for replacement in the post 2030 window, as is the F-18E, is playing quite a part in all this.

Post mid-40s at least for Rafale.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 22967
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post09 Apr 2019, 11:48

Flight Evaluations Begin For Swiss Fighter Contest
08 Apr 2019 Tony Osborne

"LONDON—Switzerland has begun flight evaluations of the combat aircraft bidding to be the country’s next fighter. Two Eurofighter Typhoons will touch down at Payerne airbase this week for the first of five two-week evaluations which are being conducted alphabetically by manufacturer name....

...Swiss officials say eight missions will be flown as part of the two-week evaluation, each with one or two aircraft. The tests will confirm the capabilities and performance of the aircraft against details of the offers submitted by the governments and the manufacturers. At least one of the missions will be flown at night.

Prior to the flight-test program in Switzerland, Swiss test pilots undertake simulator training work in the country of manufacture. “This is the only way to ensure that all candidates have the same test conditions,” says Bernhard Berset, project manager for the flight-testing program in Switzerland, in an interview published on the Swiss Federal Department of Defense, Civil Protection and Sports’ website.

He notes that flying in-country allows aircraft sensors to be tested against the same targets in the same environment and it also “ensures that the new systems will work in harmony with existing systems and infrastructures,” he said. It is unclear whether this also includes the ability to use the mountain cavern hangars at airfields like Meiringen in the Alps....

...Under current plans, the next aircraft to be evaluated will be the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, with the aircraft due to arrive in late April. These will be followed by the Dassault Rafale and the Lockheed Martin F-35 in May and Saab’s JAS-39E Gripen in early June. The deployment of the Gripen E will represent the first hops outside Sweden for the new Gripen variant."

Source: https://aviationweek.com/defense/flight ... er-contest
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 22967
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 Apr 2019, 13:18

The F-35 and other warplanes descend on Switzerland this spring
11 Apr 2019 Sebastian Sprenger

"COLOGNE, Germany – The Swiss have kicked off flying season for the five types of combat aircraft under consideration to replace the country's aging fleet, with several demonstrations scheduled between now and early July.

The probes are part of the Swiss “Air 2030” program, an $8.2 billion project to buy new aircraft and ground-based equipment for policing the country's airspace. The evaluation phase began in earnest earlier this year, as Swiss officials took the contender aircraft for a spin in the simulators of their respective home countries. Now they want to see how the planes fare in the famously neutral nation, whose alpine terrain makes engine thrust and maneuverability handy attributes.

Bringing the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Boeing F-18 Super Hornet, the Dassault Rafale, the Lockheed Martin F-35A and the Saab Gripen E to the Payerne air base near Bern is a “significant effort” for the vendors and governments involved, said an industry official from one of the competing teams. But the payoff – an estimated $6 billion of the total Air 2030 budget – is winning “one of the big, promising campaigns out there,” that official said.

All contenders must complete eight test flights each, including one at night. The mission profiles are the same for all parties to ensure equal treatment, according to the Swiss defense ministry.

Lockheed Martin expects to bring four of its fifth-generation, stealthy jets to Switzerland for demonstrations beginning in early June. The jets will be from Hill Air Force Base in Utah, making stops on the U.S. East Coast and Ramstein Air Base, Germany, before getting to Switzerland, the company said. The aircraft will be parked at Payerne during the duration of the tests for more than two weeks, up to June 17, a company spokesman told Defense News.

Notably, the Swiss requirement is only to bring one or two aircraft specimens, a spokesman for Armasuisse, the defense ministry's acquisition arm, said.... [???]

...The Swiss government decided to move ahead with flight demonstrations despite an ongoing effort to re-evaluate the Air 2030 program. The country’s new defense chief, Viola Amherd, tasked a former Swiss astronaut with critiquing its underlying premises earlier this year. Claude Nicollier, an astrophysicist and former military pilot, has until the end of April to review a 2017 expert report on which the program was built.

That analysis prescribes that Switzerland needs a fleet of 30 or 40 aircraft to intercept aerial targets that fall outside the range of ground-based defenses. Officials want enough capacity to have four planes in the air at any given time during crises."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... is-spring/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2133
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post11 Apr 2019, 16:47

Have Swiss pilots been trained @ Luke, and will they fly the Lightnings in Switzerland?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline

swiss

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 388
  • Joined: 10 Jan 2017, 14:43

Unread post11 Apr 2019, 21:08

steve2267 wrote:Have Swiss pilots been trained @ Luke, and will they fly the Lightnings in Switzerland?


The F-35 will be tested in Switzerland. But with pilots from LM.
Offline

magitsu

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 399
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2015, 22:12

Unread post11 Apr 2019, 23:32

Gripen Demonstrator or actually one of the precious 3-4 E test planes?
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2749
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post12 Apr 2019, 09:04

magitsu wrote:Gripen Demonstrator or actually one of the precious 3-4 E test planes?


Saab was in the exact same situation when Finland last selected a fighter jet in early 1990s. Finnish pilots flew Gripen prototypes in Sweden when they had 5 of them IIRC. Then they did similar testing in Finland where Swedish test pilot flew the test missions with the last prototype Gripen (with pretty much production avionics). I think they will do the same again.
Offline

swiss

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 388
  • Joined: 10 Jan 2017, 14:43

Unread post14 Apr 2019, 07:00

An interview of Bernhard Berset. Project Manager of testing NKF ( new fighter plane). He explains how the evaluation gehts done


https://translate.google.ch/translate?h ... 90408.html
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 22967
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post14 Apr 2019, 21:44

Switzerland Starts New Round of Fighter Trials
13 Apr 2019 David Donald

"...Although armasuisse personnel have been undertaking evaluations of the proposals at the OEMs’ own facilities, including the use of simulators, an important element is the evaluation of each aircraft in Switzerland. Each competitor is being evaluated in eight planned sorties, including one at night, over a two-week period. The mission scenarios and parameters will be the same for each competitor.

“This is the only way to ensure that all candidates have the same test conditions,” commented Berhnard Berset, armasuisse’s sub-project leader for NKF testing, in an interview published on the website of the DDPS (Federal Department of Defence, Civil Protection and Sport). “For example, this allows for the same target presentation or use of the sensors in the same environment. It also ensures that the new systems will work in harmony with existing systems and infrastructures. All candidates must complete the same test program.”

This phase of the evaluation will conclude at the end of June. Candidates are being tested in alphabetical sequence, with Airbus assigned the weeks April 8-21, followed by Boeing (April 22 to May 5), Dassault (May 13-26), Lockheed Martin (June 3-16) and Saab (June 17-30). Swiss pilots will take part in sorties where a two-seater is available. “For the candidates with two-seat fighter jets, it is planned that two test pilots of the [Swiss] Air Force and two test pilots of the armasuisse fly with a test pilot of the manufacturer," explained Berset. “For manufacturers with single-seat fighters, this task is taken over by the manufacturer's pilots.”

As the first to deploy for the trials, Airbus is using two Typhoons—one single-seater and a two-seater—from the RAF’s No. 41 Test and Evaluation Squadron for the evaluation, as they represent arguably the most capable configuration currently available. Ground support equipment was delivered to Payerne by an Airbus A400M of the German air force.

Lockheed Martin is expected to use F-35As from the 388th Fighter Wing at Hill AFB, Utah, and may send as many as four to Europe. Participation in the trials is likely to be the first international foray for Saab’s single-seat Gripen E. Swiss pilots flew the two-seat Gripen Demo forerunner in Sweden during the earlier fighter competition."

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ter-trials
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: elshad and 17 guests