Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by Trump

Unread postPosted: 04 Jan 2017, 10:25
by spazsinbad
Incoming Secretary of Defense Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticized by Trump
03 Jan 2017 FighterSweep

"...Today we have word that his incoming Secretary of Defense, Retired Marine Corps General James Mattis supports the [F-35] program with a “clear commitment” to its continuation.

Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Democrat from Connecticut and a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee said he personally met with Mattis and was encouraged by his support for the F-35....

..."Blumenthal commented in a statement on his meeting with Mattis, “I was encouraged by his clear commitment to American air superiority and the important role of the F-35 program in sustaining and enhancing it.”... Blumenthal said. – Hartford Courant


Source: https://fightersweep.com/6700/incoming- ... zed-trump/

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 04 Jan 2017, 16:02
by XanderCrews
Called it

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 04 Jan 2017, 17:53
by spazsinbad
Mattis Backs F-35 Stealth Fighter Criticized by Trump
03 Jan 2017 Richard Sisk

"Retired Marine Gen. James Mattis — Donald Trump’s choice for defense secretary — backed the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jet program recently criticized questioned by the president-elect, according to a senator who met with Mattis on Tuesday....

...Mattis has a reputation for independence and his backing of the F-35 would not be the first time that his judgment has been at odds with Trump’s...."

Source: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2017/01/03/matti ... zed-trump/

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2017, 01:00
by popcorn
Hopefully Mattis blooms in Trump's mushroom garden.

“Bloom where you are planted.”

A fellow Marine Corps officer says this was Mattis’ simple philosophy. If he didn’t like an assignment he was given, his attitude was to always do the best that he could.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2017, 01:49
by arian
I wouldn't be so quick. We haven't heard Omarosa's opinion of the F-35 program yet.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2017, 03:21
by popcorn
arian wrote:I wouldn't be so quick. We haven't heard Omarosa's opinion of the F-35 program yet.

Actually, Katrina Pierson is the aviation guru.. :D

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2017, 04:41
by arian
popcorn wrote:
arian wrote:I wouldn't be so quick. We haven't heard Omarosa's opinion of the F-35 program yet.

Actually, Katrina Pierson is the aviation guru.. :D


It's just, the best people folks. He has amazing people.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2017, 11:20
by lamashtu
arian wrote:
popcorn wrote:
arian wrote:I wouldn't be so quick. We haven't heard Omarosa's opinion of the F-35 program yet.

Actually, Katrina Pierson is the aviation guru.. :D


It's just, the best people folks. He has amazing people.


I have to imagine Trump's thought process of deciding that a Superbug used by the Navy would be adequate for _Air Force_ requirements:

"Quality means everything, just like the name 'Trump!' Look at that name 'Superhornet'! It's from the 'Super,' you know. It says that it's elegant and means 'quality'! Only the greatest, the best for our Air Force!"

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2017, 21:08
by botsing
lamashtu wrote:I have to imagine Trump's thought process of deciding that a Superbug used by the Navy would be adequate for _Air Force_ requirements:

"Quality means everything, just like the name 'Trump!' Look at that name 'Superhornet'! It's from the 'Super,' you know. It says that it's elegant and means 'quality'! Only the greatest, the best for our Air Force!"

LOL'd . Thank you for that!

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2017, 23:19
by steve2267
There's an easy fix for the super thing...

Just let Mr. Trump know that the Air Force pilots are all referring to the F-35A as the Trumpet, the Marines are calling theirs the Bugle, and the Navy the Coronet.

Trump trumps Superanything, after all. Problem solved...

:mrgreen:

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 05:40
by tincansailor
Mattis is a smart sharp guy, and a great choice for SecDef. The worry I have is will Trump listen to his advice? Remember he likes Mattis as "Mad Dog" not as the "Warrior Monk". Trump seems to have decided that a fight over the F-35 program is where he can showcase his ability to get a better deal. He needs to show the world he's smarter then all the experts, and can beat the contractors who are ripping off the American People.

You can't pour any concrete in the greater NY area without paying off the right people. I'm sure Trump resents that he's had to deal with that. He sees the world through his limited experience. He sees LM, Boeing, or any other defense contractor as a connected guy trying to get his cut. This is at the core of Trump's fascination with dictatorships. He admires the men who over power a system, and become the guy who everyone has to give a piece of his pie to.

He want's to be Michael Corleone at the end of the first Godfather movie. Everyone has to kneel, and kiss his Ring. He says it's not personal, it's business, but it's all deeply personal.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 05:43
by XanderCrews
tincansailor wrote:Mattis is a smart sharp guy, and a great choice for SecDef. The worry I have is will Trump listen to his advice? Remember he likes Mattis as "Mad Dog" not as the "Warrior Monk". Trump seems to have decided that a fight over the F-35 program is where he can showcase his ability to get a better deal. He needs to show the world he's smarter then all the experts, and can beat the contractors who are ripping off the American People.

You can't pour any concrete in the greater NY area without paying off the right people. I'm sure Trump resents that he's had to deal with that. He sees the world through his limited experience. He sees LM, Boeing, or any other defense contractor as a connected guy trying to get his cut. This is at the core of Trump's fascination with dictatorships. He admires the men who over power a system, and become the guy who everyone has to give a piece of his pie to.

He want's to be Michael Corleone at the end of the first Godfather movie. Everyone has to kneel, and kiss his Ring. He says it's not personal, it's business, but it's all deeply personal.


Again with this? I'm sure he appointed Mattis just to ignore him. Thanks.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 08:54
by lamashtu
I could see the appointment as part of an effort to get #NeverTrump FoPol guys on board that he will seriously need if he's going to get through the next 4-8 years without leaving a disastrous legacy. That said, Mattis tried to bring on Michelle Flournoy as his Deputy, though she ultimately turned the position down when she met with Trump's people in New York.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "deal" would be ramped up F-35 production (economies of scale is after all the easiest way of bringing down the cost of an individual airframe) and we see further orders from the Netherlands, Israel, et al and contracts hammered out for Finland, Saudi Arabia, and maybe even India. I think it's safe to say all this drive-by Twitter shaming by Trump, from Air Force One to F-35, is part of an effort to pander to his base that he isn't going to be throwing money at defence contractors (which he will) and eventually stock markets will eventually acclimate to his efforts of Twitter-shaming.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 15:06
by sferrin
XanderCrews wrote:
tincansailor wrote:Mattis is a smart sharp guy, and a great choice for SecDef. The worry I have is will Trump listen to his advice? Remember he likes Mattis as "Mad Dog" not as the "Warrior Monk". Trump seems to have decided that a fight over the F-35 program is where he can showcase his ability to get a better deal. He needs to show the world he's smarter then all the experts, and can beat the contractors who are ripping off the American People.

You can't pour any concrete in the greater NY area without paying off the right people. I'm sure Trump resents that he's had to deal with that. He sees the world through his limited experience. He sees LM, Boeing, or any other defense contractor as a connected guy trying to get his cut. This is at the core of Trump's fascination with dictatorships. He admires the men who over power a system, and become the guy who everyone has to give a piece of his pie to.

He want's to be Michael Corleone at the end of the first Godfather movie. Everyone has to kneel, and kiss his Ring. He says it's not personal, it's business, but it's all deeply personal.


Again with this? I'm sure he appointed Mattis just to ignore him. Thanks.


No kidding. Dude loves Mattis.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 16:29
by luke_sandoz
The looney tunes are coming out of the woodwork it seems.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... et-program

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 16:35
by XanderCrews
lamashtu wrote:I could see the appointment as part of an effort to get #NeverTrump FoPol guys on board that he will seriously need if he's going to get through the next 4-8 years without leaving a disastrous legacy.


Damn so now he is trying to find a good cabinet so he can be effective?!

What will this sneaky bastard do next?!

It's almost like it's a plan. Like he has mattis there to be good cop, so he can be bad cop. And the F-35 will still be bought but possibly at a better rate after he cuts through red tape and takes credit...

Mattis is his opposite. Mattis is calm, tempered, ruthless and chooses his words carefully. Trump is grandiose, fast and loose, and a dealer. So Ino other words trump is picking exactly the right man and not the yes men you warned us about. In fact mattis was fired by Obama for not being a yes man.

It's almost like trump recognizes strengths and weaknesses to an extremely shrewd degree

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 16:38
by sferrin
luke_sandoz wrote:The looney tunes are coming out of the woodwork it seems.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... et-program


That guy is either incredibly ignorant or just flat out lying. (Most likely a combination of the two.)

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 16:41
by castlebravo
lamashtu wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the "deal" would be ramped up F-35 production (economies of scale is after all the easiest way of bringing down the cost of an individual airframe)


That's what I've been saying all along. The timing is perfect for Trump to take credit for the cost reduction that comes with signing the first multi-year block buy.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 16:49
by SpudmanWP
Them coming out the woodwork surprises you?

Think rats fleeing a sinking ship. You see them everywhere, they make a lot of noise, they start feeding on each other ... It will all be over soon. :mrgreen:

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 18:12
by lamashtu
sferrin wrote:[

No kidding. Dude loves Mattis.


Given Trump's well-publicised deferrals from the Vietnam-era draft and that Mattis was, well, a Marine Corps general, and also the fact that Mattis' outlook on foreign policy couldn't be more different from Trump's, I'm not so sure the "love" goes both ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCD5zHBNWG8

Also this quote from a Mark Bowden piece is illustrative of how long Trump's mancrush on Mattis might last:

It was hard to watch the way he treated those around him, issuing peremptory orders—“Polish this, Tony. Today.” He met with the lady who selected his drapery for the Florida estate—“The best! The best! She’s a genius!”—who had selected a sampling of fabrics for him to choose from, all different shades of gold. He left the choice to her, saying only, “I want it really rich. Rich, rich, elegant, incredible.” Then, “Don’t disappoint me.” It was a pattern. Trump did not make decisions. He surrounded himself with “geniuses” and delegated. So long as you did not “disappoint” him—and it was never clear how to avoid doing so—you were gold.

What was clear was how fast and far one could fall from favor. The trip from “genius” to “idiot” was a flash. The former pilots who flew his plane were geniuses, until they made one too many bumpy landings and became “f***ing idiots.” The gold carpeting selected in his absence for the locker rooms in the spa at Mar-a-Lago? “What kind of f***ing idiot . . . ?”

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 19:59
by sferrin
Time will tell. Mattis could have easily refused. He didn't.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 23:02
by XanderCrews
So mattis will be Sec Def and get a free hand?

Fark, I think I died and went to heaven.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 23:58
by popcorn
lamashtu wrote:
sferrin wrote:[

No kidding. Dude loves Mattis.


Given Trump's well-publicised deferrals from the Vietnam-era draft and that Mattis was, well, a Marine Corps general, and also the fact that Mattis' outlook on foreign policy couldn't be more different from Trump's, I'm not so sure the "love" goes both ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCD5zHBNWG8

Also this quote from a Mark Bowden piece is illustrative of how long Trump's mancrush on Mattis might last:

It was hard to watch the way he treated those around him, issuing peremptory orders—“Polish this, Tony. Today.” He met with the lady who selected his drapery for the Florida estate—“The best! The best! She’s a genius!”—who had selected a sampling of fabrics for him to choose from, all different shades of gold. He left the choice to her, saying only, “I want it really rich. Rich, rich, elegant, incredible.” Then, “Don’t disappoint me.” It was a pattern. Trump did not make decisions. He surrounded himself with “geniuses” and delegated. So long as you did not “disappoint” him—and it was never clear how to avoid doing so—you were gold.

What was clear was how fast and far one could fall from favor. The trip from “genius” to “idiot” was a flash. The former pilots who flew his plane were geniuses, until they made one too many bumpy landings and became “f***ing idiots.” The gold carpeting selected in his absence for the locker rooms in the spa at Mar-a-Lago? “What kind of f***ing idiot . . . ?”

Classic Mushroom Farming technique, IGen. Mattis is a Marine, no doubt with tremendous fortitude which is going to be tested as DoD Chief. Fingers-crossed he makes a difference.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 01:48
by arian
XanderCrews wrote:Trump is grandiose, fast and loose, and a dealer.


I believe the word you're looking for there is dumba**.

I'm glad Trump is picking some good people around him, but lets just be honest here and I don't think even Trump's biggest supports could deny this: Trump needs to be kept in check by the rest of his administration and the rest of the GOP government because you don't want to leave a dumba** to his own accord.

Time will tell which side will win out in the end.

PS: And lets also not forget he has picked some horrible people, like Flynn. We'll see how much he turns the CIA into the GRU annex.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 06:56
by nutshell
sferrin wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:The looney tunes are coming out of the woodwork it seems.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... et-program


That guy is either incredibly ignorant or just flat out lying. (Most likely a combination of the two.)


The comments.

I spilled so much blood by reading them i need a transfusion.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 08:14
by Corsair1963
The titles of his most recent articles says it all....

http://www.nationalreview.com/author/mike-fredenburg

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 18:07
by maus92
castlebravo wrote:
lamashtu wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the "deal" would be ramped up F-35 production (economies of scale is after all the easiest way of bringing down the cost of an individual airframe)


That's what I've been saying all along. The timing is perfect for Trump to take credit for the cost reduction that comes with signing the first multi-year block buy.


Block buy is not happening, for the US at least. The US will most likely participate in EOQ wrt advance procurement.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 19:11
by SpudmanWP
Gilmore is on the way out and Trump want's an "easy" win to show he can get the price down.

The easiest way to do that is to go with the previously proposed Block Buy.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 19:51
by lamashtu
I should probably addend that with another equally possible outcome: Absolutely nothing of note happens and F-35 program proceeds as planned. Both the media and much of Trump's base for which his Twitter-shaming was designed to pander to have little reason to pay attention to the program once the hub-bub dies down, as there's other stuff Trump can complain about what's gone wrong in the US. To quote an episode of "Yes Minister": "[L]ots of activity but no actual achievement." Except replace the "activity" with "noise".

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 20:11
by maus92
"No Block Buy for U.S. Services

Per expectations, most international F-35 partners will move forward with a three-year bulk purchase of aircraft in Lots 12, 13 and 14 beginning in 2018, Bogdan said. As recently as September, he expressed confidence that the U.S. services would join in the block buy in its second year. However, Bogdan said Dec. 19 that the JPO made a “strategic communication mistake” in characterizing the services’ plan as a block buy, explaining that the U.S. will instead contribute money to buy long-lead parts in bulk during the three years.

The services have already budgeted for the additional funding, called an “economic order quantity,” in their fiscal 2018 budget blueprints but must ask Congress to authorize the transactions each year.

The block buy [bulk purchase for international partners] will cover 451 aircraft and save about $2 billion altogether, Bogdan said."

http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft ... t-left-fix

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 22:55
by arian
lamashtu wrote:I should probably addend that with another equally possible outcome: Absolutely nothing of note happens and F-35 program proceeds as planned. Both the media and much of Trump's base for which his Twitter-shaming was designed to pander to have little reason to pay attention to the program once the hub-bub dies down, as there's other stuff Trump can complain about what's gone wrong in the US. To quote an episode of "Yes Minister": "[L]ots of activity but no actual achievement." Except replace the "activity" with "noise".


Yes. Ends with scene of Humphrey saying "Yes, Minster."

Noise will be made, more F-35s will be produced, price will come down with economies of scale, and then Trump can say "see, I brought down the price of the F-35".

Corsair1963 wrote:The titles of his most recent articles says it all....

<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.nationalreview.com/author/mike-fredenburg</span>


Every single one of his articles there looks like a load of BS.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 17:42
by Dragon029
Trump's currently having his first press conference in the past 6 months; he's made some (vague) comments:

And we’re going to do that with a lot of other industries. I'm very much involved with the generals and admirals on the airplane, the F35 you’ve been reading about it. And it’s way, way behind schedule and many billions of dollars over budget. I don't like that.

And admirals have been fantastic. In general have been fantastic. I've really gotten to know them well. And were going to do some big things on the F35 program and perhaps the F18 program. And we’re going to get those costs way down, and we’re gonna get the plane even better and we’re going to have to competition. And it's going to be a beautiful thing.


http://www.npr.org/2017/01/11/509137239 ... dent-elect

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 19:36
by XanderCrews
"Going to have to competition"


?????

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 20:16
by cosmicdwarf
He probably thinks threatening to restart the F-18 somehow makes it competition for the F-35.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2017, 01:09
by arian
Dragon029 wrote:
And we’re going to do that with a lot of other industries. I'm very much involved with the generals and admirals on the airplane, the F35 you’ve been reading about it. And it’s way, way behind schedule and many billions of dollars over budget. I don't like that.

And admirals have been fantastic. In general have been fantastic. I've really gotten to know them well. And were going to do some big things on the F35 program and perhaps the F18 program. And we’re going to get those costs way down, and we’re gonna get the plane even better and we’re going to have to competition. And it's going to be a beautiful thing.


http://www.npr.org/2017/01/11/509137239 ... dent-elect


Are these the actual words he said? He sounds borderline retarded when he speaks like this.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2017, 01:42
by popcorn
arian wrote:
Dragon029 wrote:
And we’re going to do that with a lot of other industries. I'm very much involved with the generals and admirals on the airplane, the F35 you’ve been reading about it. And it’s way, way behind schedule and many billions of dollars over budget. I don't like that.

And admirals have been fantastic. In general have been fantastic. I've really gotten to know them well. And were going to do some big things on the F35 program and perhaps the F18 program. And we’re going to get those costs way down, and we’re gonna get the plane even better and we’re going to have to competition. And it's going to be a beautiful thing.


http://www.npr.org/2017/01/11/509137239 ... dent-elect


Are these the actual words he said? He sounds borderline retarded when he speaks like this.

He has a very limited vocabulary to go with a very limited understanding of the issue. Brain on a loop...essentially what he said previously.

Re: Incoming SecDef Mattis Backs F-35 Program Criticize by T

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2017, 02:18
by lamashtu
"I know words. I have the best words" sums it up quite nicely.