Commander Naval Air Forces wants more F/A-18s

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neptune

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Unread post16 Jul 2017, 07:01

......further enhance the fleet’s readiness, situational awareness and tactical capabilities, .....
while others are stumbling and fumbling around with a-a and a-g tags and "handling", others are continuing to
get " we basically have a God's Eye View of what's going on"...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53269


....take a look next door...while you puzzle this.
:wink:
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spazsinbad

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Unread post17 Jul 2017, 14:32

A never-ending story with puzzlements aplenty for all concerned - perhaps with lessons for the Shornets &/or F-35s.
Toxic Air From T-45 Engine May Be Poisoning U.S. Navy Pilots
17 Jul 2017 Lara Seligman

"In the search for the root cause of a recent spike in hypoxia-like cockpit incidents that leave student pilots disoriented and short of breath, the U.S. Navy is beginning to look more closely at the quality of the air that comes off the McDonnel Douglas T-45 Goshawk’s engine and feeds into the oxygen generator system....

...The Navy says it is now looking “very closely” at the quality of the bleed air coming off the T-45’s engine as a possible source of the problem, and plans to begin testing a sample of uninstalled engines using “comprehensive” contaminant detection methods this month, the service confirmed to Aviation Week....

...Although there are many possible reasons for the incidents, aircrew reports seem to support the theory that the symptoms seen in the T-45 are caused by a toxin in the airflow. In incidents of true hypoxia—known as hypoxic hypoxia, or a lack of oxygen flow to the lungs—symptoms abate once pilots use the emergency oxygen. But many T-45 pilots had persistent symptoms that sometimes lasted for hours after landing—in one instance, the pilot could not even remember landing, said one congressional staffer familiar with the issue.

These symptoms fall in line with what is called histotoxic hypoxia, which occurs when the body’s tissues are not able to use the oxygen that has been delivered to them, and is often caused by a contaminant in the airflow.

The rapid onset or the delayed recognition of the symptoms in some cases led many T-45 pilots to speculate that what they experienced was histotoxic hypoxia due to a contaminant, according to the Navy’s report.

“Histotoxic hypoxia symptoms are highly variable across individuals, may not be immediately recognized, and 100% emergency oxygen may not quickly alleviate the symptoms,” the report states....

...The Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet and EA-18G Growler fleets have also been plagued by incidents of hypoxia, as well as the Air Force’s F-35As at Luke AFB, Arizona."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/toxic-a ... avy-pilots
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post17 Jul 2017, 19:34

Saturday morning Guard drill weekend, I would occasionally have histotoxic hypoxia. :mrgreen:
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Unread post17 Jul 2017, 22:17

I hope you mean you have it on parade? And you fall flat on your face forward like every good brit bearskin guardsman. :mrgreen:

JEEPERS I would not like you to experience that in the air. I have mentioned my carbon monoxide poisoning early on when basic training in a rotary piston Winjeel. Waiting for my always late instructor with the engine idling but this time with a tail wind pushing exhaust over the open canopy. Once in the air I was MUCH MORE DOPEY than usual which the instructor noticed so he suggested we return to Point Cook. Then he took over landed and sent me to the sick bay where they did a blood test to note my elevated carbon monoxide and other contaminants intake - otherwise I would have failed. And I felt as sick as a dog.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post17 Jul 2017, 23:00

CH3 CH2 OH histotoxic hypoxia.....Jeremiah Weed, etc. (Not CO)

Helped me avoid parades.

They still aren't having any problems with my kid's T-6 OBOGS just down the road from Kingsville....so I still maintain the food at the Kingsville Club and possibly associated airborne residual gases may be the culprit. The O2 generator units are somewhat different however....maybe the Goshawks could just switch to the Texan II system. :D
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Unread post09 Aug 2017, 23:08

:inlove: 8) Callsign of Capt. Sara Joyner was 'BATTLE AXE' when at top of the CAW - you go girl! :crazypilot: :applause:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013 ... 025&rank=1
UPDATED: Navy Seeing Success Collecting Data on Physiological Episodes; Taps Former Air Wing Commander to Lead Effort
09 Aug 2017 Megan Eckstein

"...oxygen pressure monitors were put on several dozen T-45 trainers, and students and instructors have been flying with them all summer. “We’re getting those warnings that we never had before, so indications of low oxygen pressure in certain flight regimes,” he said. “What we’ve got to get away from is reliance on [individual perceptions and self-reporting], and more from data. So putting sensors on these airplanes so we can collect data and get a richer understanding of what’s going on.”

With the additional sensors on the planes, “we’re able to collect the kind of data that may – and I say may – give us some insight into what would be causing lack of oxygen to the pilot, which causes hypoxic events. So I think that’s all good. And there are other monitors that we’ve put in place in the T-45s. A whole host of what we would call refresh rates on the F-18s that we hope to bring back some youth in the Environmental Control System on the F-18, see if that helps reduce the number of PE events, pressurization events especially. So all of that data is being collected while we continue to fly, and we’re keeping a very close look on PE events and what happens,” Moran said. “We have response teams that go out now; if a pilot experiences an event, we know what protocols to provide to both take care of the aircrew but also to measure what happened to try to make some determination about root cause. Root-cause analysis continues, and it’s mining down into many different branches of evidence to find out what we can to try to determine what is the true cause. And we may find out that there are multiple causes here and we’ll have to address all of them.”

[Capt. Sara] Joyner comes to this new job from serving as the Navy Senate Liaison in the Office of Legislative Affairs, but her background is as an F/A-18 pilot who commanded Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 3 and Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 105. The 1989 U.S. Naval Academy graduate and Maryland native began her career flying the A-4E Skyhawk before moving to the Hornet. She has also worked in the air warfare directorate as the Joint Strike Fighter requirements officer – working directly for Moran, who was the air warfare director at the time – and she was named a senior fellow in the CNO Strategic Studies Group.

“She’s got all the right things. If I had to go pluck somebody out by their resume, I’d go, well that’s a pretty good pick right there,” Moran said. “I know her personally and have a lot of confidence in her. I know she’ll do a great job.”

Source: https://news.usni.org/2017/08/09/navy-t ... ion-effort
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 18:38

Single engine of two hazards - pilot safe though thank goodness - Super Hornet dinged for sure - runway closed at Bahrain:

https://news.usni.org/2017/08/12/nimitz ... e-ejecting
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‫حكم العوائل - سقوط طائره أف ١٨ أمريكيا في مطار البحرين...‬.mp4 [ 192.14 KiB | Viewed 1525 times ]

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 22:32

spazsinbad wrote:Single engine of two hazards - pilot safe though thank goodness - Super Hornet dinged for sure - runway closed at Bahrain:

https://news.usni.org/2017/08/12/nimitz ... e-ejecting

That jet is clearly a F/A-18E but the Navy is reporting a damaged F/A-18F from VFA-22 that hit the round down during an aborted carrier landing.
"FA-18F impacted round down with right horizontal stabilator upon landing. Diverted successfully."
I'd be curious what the LSO and Air Boss had to say. Maybe the Navy will release the PLAT video without a FOIA request.

Three class A mishaps (F-5N, F/A-18E & F/A-18F) within days is worrying. Also, an MV-22 was lost with several fatalities. There is suggestions that the decrease in flight hours due to budget concerns is related to the increased mishap rate.
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 23:43

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SuperHornetBAHRAINsingleEngineEmergencyZOOM.jpg
SuperHornetBAHRAINsingleEngineEmergencyZOOMbehind.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 13 Aug 2017, 02:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 00:50

neurotech wrote:Three class A mishaps (F-5N, F/A-18E & F/A-18F) within days is worrying. Also, an MV-22 was lost with several fatalities. There is suggestions that the decrease in flight hours due to budget concerns is related to the increased mishap rate.


There is a belief, perhaps somewhat superstitious, that mishaps happen in sets of threes. I used to call it BS, but throughout the years, I've seen this be true quite often.
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 00:53

spazsinbad wrote:UhOH - I'll see what can be found out about it all - photo: https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/upl ... 269354.jpg

SH demonstrating high AOA capability... :mrgreen:
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 01:20

35_aoa wrote:
neurotech wrote:Three class A mishaps (F-5N, F/A-18E & F/A-18F) within days is worrying. Also, an MV-22 was lost with several fatalities. There is suggestions that the decrease in flight hours due to budget concerns is related to the increased mishap rate.


There is a belief, perhaps somewhat superstitious, that mishaps happen in sets of threes. I used to call it BS, but throughout the years, I've seen this be true quite often.

'35_aoa' Yeah but when do you start counting? And is it ONLY USN aircraft or do you include USMC? Let me know when the next group of three starts. Is it from today for USN? 'neurotech' counts as above but we have no info about rampstrike. Was the rampstrike a 'Class A'? I would say accidents happen when perhaps lots of variables, including above, are in play.

I cannot open this .PPT file right away but it is here for 'USN Mishap Stats' includes recent rampstrike info:

http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/D ... _Stats.ppt (2.7Mb)

Where do we start counting for CLASS A? Counting backwards is easy but how about we start now? PDF of PPT below

Another Class A summary PDF attached: http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/D ... maries.pdf (32Kb)
Navy Short Narratives
USN AVIATION CLASS A MISHAPS (includes UAS/UAV, FRMs and AGMs not included in the Flight Slide)
9 Aug 2017: (25 Miles South of Key West, FL) F-5N went down over water. Pilot ejected safely.
5 Aug 2017: (North Island NAS, CA) F/A-18F struck round down with right horizontal stabilator upon landing. Diverted
successfully.
6 Jul 2017: (Bay of Bengal) F/A-18F engine borescope plug backed out in flight causing hot air to burn to engine bay and aircraft skin.
8 Jun 2017: EA-18G starboard wing damaged during spread when it traversed 40 degrees beyond the normal down position. (AGM)
6 Apr 2017: (Off the Coast of Guam) MH-60R collided with water on initial takeoff from ship. No injuries.
1 Apr 2017: (Philippine Sea) F-18E lost on approach to landing on carrier. Pilot ejected without injury prior to water impact.
9 Jan 2017: (NAS Norfolk, VA) Three E-2C aircraft damaged in an engine oil related event. (AGM)
7 Jan 2017: (NAS Meridian, MS) T-45 crashed following a BASH incident on takeoff. Both crewmembers ejected. No fatalities.
8 Dec 0216: (Kadena AFB, Japan) Tow bar separation resulted in aircraft/tow collision with damage to nose gear and lower fuselage of P-8A. (AGM)
6 Dec 2016: (NAS Whidbey Island, WA) Canopy on EA-18G exploded/jettisoned resulting in severe injuries to 2 personnel. (AGM)
1 Nov 2016: (Upper Mojave Desert Region) F/A-18F struck a tree while instructor pilot was conducting a currency flight event. Returned to base safely. No injuries.
3 Oct 2016: (Tinker AFB, OK) E-6B #2 engine sustained compressor blade damage due to bird ingestion. Aircraft landed safely. No injuries."
Attachments
Mishap_Stats PPT USN Aug 2017ed.pdf
(307.58 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
Class A Aug 2017 to date AvSummaries.pdf
(32.59 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 18:46

spazsinbad wrote: 'neurotech' counts as above but we have no info about rampstrike. Was the rampstrike a 'Class A'? I would say accidents happen when perhaps lots of variables, including above, are in play.

Probable 'Class A' and listed in AvSummary. They don't typically list probable Class B or C mishaps.

I'm not 100% certain of the regs, but Class A usually requires a JAGMAN investigation, and a possible FNAEB for the crew involved. If a mishap is under-reported, and becomes a Class A, the fallout is significantly worse for the chain of command.

As for this F/A-18F rampstrike, replacing the horizontal stab and actuator is not a $2m+ repair. NAVAIR inspection requirements may result in a somewhat lengthy stay at NAS North Island, with the labor cost added to the mishap total that could exceed $2m threshold. The Navy considers any airframe cracks to be a downing discrepancy, requiring structural component replacement. There are Super Hornets at depot with a red stripe on them, which short of a major SLEP program, permanently grounded.
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 21:51

neurotech wrote:.... There is suggestions that the decrease in flight hours due to budget concerns is related to the increased mishap rate.


....legacy of 'bama just keeps on giving, "when will it ever end!!"
:doh:
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 23:14

neptune wrote:
neurotech wrote:.... There is suggestions that the decrease in flight hours due to budget concerns is related to the increased mishap rate.


....legacy of 'bama just keeps on giving, "when will it ever end!!"
:doh:

As much as I avoid politics... Do you honestly think Congress will authorize significant increase to the base Defense budget just because Pres. Trump is now in the White House?

SecDef Carter tried to use Overseas Contingency Operation (OCO) funds to mitigate the budget issues, but Congress limited the OCO fund usage.

The decrease in flight hours is due to Congress cutting depot/SLEP funds, and this could be somewhat reversed in less than 24 months, if Congress fully supported it. The Navy has requested additional funds in FY2018 for the F/A-18 depots, so this might be changing soon. At this point, the Navy needs both new F/A-18E/Fs and more depot funds.
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