Commander Naval Air Forces wants more F/A-18s

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madrat

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Unread post09 Feb 2017, 03:46

So what's so bad about getting an F-35C out the door that's not fully functional in every respect, but at least can take some strain off the current fleet?
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Unread post09 Feb 2017, 03:53

I think this clue has been mentioned earlier but I'm getting old. I do not know the timetable for getting CVNs ready for the F-35C (and maybe the B if the USN don't hurry up enough!) but that is part of the equation for deploying them on any old CVN - those CVNs have to be ready for the F-35C. Not even the 'F-35C test so far CVNs' were fully F-35C capable - takes time, money and effort. There might be a timetable for these individual CVN modifications online somewhere. Then there is standing up squadrons with all the land paraphernalia required - add the money (which no one seems to have) & STIR!
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 03:03

And now it is time for the SUPA DUPA Hornet (or block three - whatever that is as I cannot read more than below....)
Boeing’s Souped Up Super Hornet Adds Smart U.S. Navy Firepower
14 Feb 2017 Lara Seligman

"As President Donald Trump signals he may reconsider the mix of F-35Cs and F/A-18s for the carrier air wing of the 2020s and beyond, Boeing is pitching an upgraded “Block 3” Super Hornet designed to add firepower and act as a smart node on the U.S. Navy’s future network. While the service’s first F-35Cs will come online in 2018, the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet will make up at least half of the carrier air wing through the 2040s. The challenge is to keep the Super...[schiezenhauser?]

Source: http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft ... -firepower
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 05:24

Didn't SecDef direct an F-35C vs SH comparison recently? I ask because, behold(!), BA trots out a new version of SH -- complete with all kinds of developmental items (i.e. costly, risky, and time consuming, including a full slate of testing), and magically a 9000hr design to boot (bet that's free of charge too :roll:) What happened to the Advanced Super Hornet (stealth doesn't matter, but we can be just as stealthy) or the Advanced SH Lite (lowest price, technically acceptable)?

What's the story next week?
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 12:27

:devil: Youse can now see the full article - why was it locked earlier? Schadenfreude - because it was really SchiezenHauser? :doh:
Boeing’s Souped-Up Super Hornet Adds Smart U.S. Navy Firepower
14 Feb 2017 Lara Seligman

"As President Donald Trump signals he may reconsider [WTF has the Donald got to do with this?] the mix of F-35Cs and F/A-18s for the carrier air wing of the 2020s and beyond, Boeing is pitching an upgraded “Block 3” Super Hornet designed to add firepower and act as a smart node [heheh that is funny] on the U.S. Navy’s future network....

...While the “Advanced Super Hornet” Boeing proposed in 2013 focused on stealth, the new and improved Block 3 is designed to optimize the Navy’s integrated network architecture, says Dan Gillian, Boeing F/A-18 and EA-18 program manager. The big question for the carrier air wing through the 2030s, says Gillian, is: “How can the Super Hornet evolve in a complementary way with the E-2D [Hawkeye] and Growler to help address some of those carrier gaps?”...[wot no F-35C?]

...However, Gillian would not say definitively whether Block 3 could replace the F-35C in the carrier air wing. Boeing is focused on “complementary capability,” and ultimately the Navy will decide the right mix of each platform, he stresses.
“We are supporting Block 3 as a key piece of solving the carrier air wing capability problem,” he says. “Our job is to present solutions to solve their warfighting problems.”

Gillian envisions a Block 3 Super Hornet working in tandem with the stealthy F-35C [THANK GOODNESS THE F-35C gets a mention - who'da thunk], Growler’s full-spectrum jammer and E-2D’s early-warning capability to dominate the skies. The addition of a long-range infrared sensor (IRST) will allow Block 3 to detect and track advanced threats from a distance, while conformal fuel tanks (CFT) will extend range by 100-120 nm. The CFTs are designed to replace the extra fuel tanks Super Hornets currently sling under the wing, reducing weight and drag and enabling additional payload.

These changes allow a fully loaded Block 3 Super Hornet to operate in conjunction with a stealthy F-35 [PHEW!], providing air cover and greater magazine depth.

“You can have an F-35 in its very stealthy way doing a deep-strike mission with Super Hornet providing air superiority at that same range, or you can have Super Hornet carrying large standoff weapons that F-35 cannot carry [WUT?!], with F-35 providing some air cover,” Gillian says. “You get very mission-flexible, so range is important.”... [then gibberish about stealthy evolved shornet BUT here comes the NETWORK to KICK BUTT!]

...The aircraft will have an advanced cockpit system with a large-area display for improved user interface, a more powerful computer called the Distributed Targeting Processor Network (DTPN), and a bigger data pipe for passing information known as Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT). TTNT is already a program of record for Growler and E-2D, and DTPN is also fielded on the Growler.

“You have your IRST sensor, you have other sensors in the carrier air wing, you need a big pipe to move that information around, then you need a big computer to be able to fuse all that information together,” Gillian says. “Block 3 Super Hornet needs to be a smart node on the network capable of crunching and passing data across the network to other assets.”

This advanced computing architecture ensures the Super Hornet, Growler and E-2D can talk to each other and pass critical threat data over the same network in combat. However, the F-35 is not on TTNT; rather it uses the smaller-bandwidth Link 16 network to pass and receive data from fourth-generation aircraft.

The result is that while the F-35C can communicate with the rest of the carrier air wing, passing large amounts of data may be more difficult. While improving fifth-to-fourth generation connectivity is an ongoing discussion, “I think the question is: how does F-35 plug in with everybody else?” Gillian says. “If everybody else is on TTNT, there seems like an obvious answer there.”

The Navy could probably add TTNT to the F-35’s Link 16 functionality, but the fighter cannot broadcast on any Link 16 waveform without compromising its stealth, because Link 16 is not a low-probability-of-intercept waveform. The F-35 can pass large amounts of data to other F-35s via the stealthy Multifunction Advanced Data Link, which most other aircraft cannot currently access....

...“I believe there is a general acceptance of the fact that we need to advance the Super Hornet, because it is going to be a front-line fighter [from the] 2020s into the ’40s,” Gillian says. “We believe we have good alignment on the Block 3 Super Hornet systems that address key carrier air wing gaps in a complementary way with the F-35, E-2D and Growler.”"

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing- ... -firepower
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popcorn

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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 12:43

TTNT not yet available on the F-35 but the jet figures far more prominently in the TTNT brochure from Rockwell Collins than the SH. :mrgreen:
8)
https://rockwellcollins.com/~/media/Fil ... chure.aspx
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krorvik

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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 14:21

Well, it seems Boeing has seen an opportunity, proposing a super hornet almost as a missile truck to combine with F-35C stealth and sensor capability.

But this is a complement to the F-35C, not an alternative.
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 15:12

Presumably new avionics could be added to existing Super Hornet airframes. Buying new SH airframes would only be necessary because of failures of depots to rapidly conduct upgrades and maintenance. This has been previously blamed on sequestration budget cuts.
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steve2267

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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 15:47

krorvik wrote:Well, it seems Boeing has seen an opportunity, proposing a super hornet almost as a missile truck to combine with F-35C stealth and sensor capability.


How many AIM-120s can you hang on a SHornet? F-35 will be able to carry how many? Twelve? Fourteen (if six internal is enabled)?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Dragon029

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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 16:13

A Super Hornet can carry a max of 12 AIM-120s + 2 AIM-9s if you don't have any tanks on the wings and don't have a targeting pod on STA 5 or 7 (the fuselage / hip hardpoints).
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 16:25

Dragon029 wrote:A Super Hornet can carry a max of 12 AIM-120s + 2 AIM-9s if you don't have any tanks on the wings and don't have a targeting pod on STA 5 or 7 (the fuselage / hip hardpoints).

Without an EPE engine the SHornet will also be subsonic and short ranged with that payload.
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 16:34

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
Dragon029 wrote:A Super Hornet can carry a max of 12 AIM-120s + 2 AIM-9s if you don't have any tanks on the wings and don't have a targeting pod on STA 5 or 7 (the fuselage / hip hardpoints).

Without an EPE engine the SHornet will also be subsonic and short ranged with that payload.

That's OK! Instead of buying one F-35C to act as a missile truck, the USN will buy four SHornet airframes:
  1. One F/A-18E shooter / missile truck
  2. One F/A-18E tanker to get the shooter there
  3. One F/A-18E tanker to get the shooter back
  4. One E/A-18G Growler to keep them from getting shot down

Boeing must be waiting for Trudeau to make the non-refundable downpayment to set the hook, then they'll hit up Canada for additional tanker and Growler sales so they don't waste their investment in the 18 SHornets. :devil:
Last edited by steve2267 on 14 Feb 2017, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 17:31

I told you all the Super Duper Hornet was coming... :)
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 17:48

Missile Truck Question

To me the old artillery saying, "If the enemy is within range, so are you", seem a little to close to comfort. If a SH packed with missiles comes within launch range, it would be visible on any old radar, except perhaps under heavy jamming.

How can a missile truck stay out of harms way, while still within useful range to launch its missiles?
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Unread post14 Feb 2017, 18:04

lamoey wrote:Missile Truck Question

To me the old artillery saying, "If the enemy is within range, so are you", seem a little to close to comfort. If a SH packed with missiles comes within launch range, it would be visible on any old radar, except perhaps under heavy jamming.

How can a missile truck stay out of harms way, while still within useful range to launch its missiles?


By either using standoff-capable missiles with a disposable booster, allowing the missile to have sufficient energy to successfully complete an engagement, or being VLO.

Watch for LRS-B to act in this role, or for a VLO UCAV.
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