Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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popcorn

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Unread post22 Jun 2017, 00:41

"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Aug 2017, 17:05

The cryptic 'popcorn' URL above also mentions F-35Bs for Israel & here we go again - despite the naysayers - Bs ROOL! :doh:
Israel weighing interest in STOVL-variant F-35
03 Aug 2017 Arie Egozi

"New threats faced by Israel have placed the potential purchase of short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) variant Lockheed Martin F-35Bs as a high priority. Discussions are under way, with Israel's defence ministry hoping to reach a decision before a new 10-year Foreign Military Financing agreement with the USA comes into effect in 2019.

Deliveries of conventional take-off and landing F-35Is to the Israeli air force continue, with the service having so far placed orders for 50 examples. The “Golden Eagle” squadron which operates the "Adir" and the air force's flight test squadron continue to adapt the stealth fighter to meet the nation's specific requirements, with this work including the addition of a number of Israeli-developed systems....

...Sources indicate that the Israeli air force will have to choose between obtaining additional F-35s – potentially including STOVL examples – or an advanced version of the F-15... capable of carrying an expanded weapons load."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 35-439959/
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mixelflick

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Unread post03 Aug 2017, 18:00

I always said the Israeli's would be first to bloody the F-35, now I just hope they can use it air to air.

It speaks volumes IMO that they're upping their order. I would expect an additional order for up to 25 B's in lieu of more F-15's, as Israel has to have a backup plan if her airfields are hit/put out of commission. Seeing as Israel is just focused on survival instead of grabbing large swath's of land, her F-15's and 16's can handle the air defense mission.

It is only a matter of time before the Iranian reactor is hit, and you can bet once the F-35 reaches critical mass there (25 airframes?), they'll use it to finish the job...
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Unread post05 Aug 2017, 12:59

mixelflick wrote:I always said the Israeli's would be first to bloody the F-35, now I just hope they can use it air to air.

It speaks volumes IMO that they're upping their order. I would expect an additional order for up to 25 B's in lieu of more F-15's, as Israel has to have a backup plan if her airfields are hit/put out of commission. Seeing as Israel is just focused on survival instead of grabbing large swath's of land, her F-15's and 16's can handle the air defense mission.

It is only a matter of time before the Iranian reactor is hit, and you can bet once the F-35 reaches critical mass there (25 airframes?), they'll use it to finish the job...


Israel is by itself a sort of benchmark. If they buy something for their military and ask for more, then you already have a hint or two on how good the product is.
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Unread post05 Aug 2017, 17:12

nutshell wrote:Israel is by itself a sort of benchmark. If they buy something for their military and ask for more, then you already have a hint or two on how good the product is.


Israel has good tastes within the spectrum of US weapons. Except for submarines from Germany, Israel is doing little importing of weapon systems from countries other than the US. This is likely because of massive US military aid that comes with buy American type clauses and a strong-per-citizen domestic arms industry.
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blindpilot

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Unread post05 Aug 2017, 18:53

talkitron wrote:... Except for submarines from Germany, Israel is doing little importing of weapon systems... because of massive US military aid that comes with buy American type clauses ...


That's a loop hole you could drive a bus through. Those subs are ... first two totally paid for by Germany, and last ones Germany pays 1/3 the price. AND Israel used "US Aid" to help pay for the other 2/3. And it's not just because the US doesn't offer "non-nuclear powered subs" to compete. Israel does the same thing with ships, missiles, radars etc.

I agree with the basic premise that Israel looks to "dance with the one that brung her," but she would buy German subsidized Eurofighters in a heartbeat if they were considered better, and use US Aid to help pay for them. (see Eurocopter AS565, Italian M-346 etc.)

Israel always buys what she considers "the Best Available."

Just saying,
BP
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Unread post05 Aug 2017, 20:04

Keep in mind that the US does not build or have expertise in AIP or diesel subs, let alone littoral subs.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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alloycowboy

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Unread post06 Aug 2017, 01:35

blindpilot wrote:
talkitron wrote:... Except for submarines from Germany, Israel is doing little importing of weapon systems... because of massive US military aid that comes with buy American type clauses ...


That's a loop hole you could drive a bus through. Those subs are ... first two totally paid for by Germany, and last ones Germany pays 1/3 the price. AND Israel used "US Aid" to help pay for the other 2/3. And it's not just because the US doesn't offer "non-nuclear powered subs" to compete. Israel does the same thing with ships, missiles, radars etc.

I agree with the basic premise that Israel looks to "dance with the one that brung her," but she would buy German subsidized Eurofighters in a heartbeat if they were considered better, and use US Aid to help pay for them. (see Eurocopter AS565, Italian M-346 etc.)

Israel always buys what she considers "the Best Available."

Just saying,
BP


Also like the Gopro and the Iphone the market for F-35 accessories is going to be huge ($$$,$$$,$$$,$$$) and it would be foolish for Isreali aerospace companies not to grab a big piece of that market. (Ie. large stealth drop tanks)
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vanshilar

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Unread post06 Aug 2017, 02:15

alloycowboy wrote:(Ie. large stealth drop tanks)


I always wonder if stealth drop tanks will be "export controlled" i.e. not allowed to drop it in enemy territory :mrgreen:
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Unread post06 Aug 2017, 04:35

SpudmanWP wrote:Keep in mind that the US does not build or have expertise in AIP or diesel subs, let alone littoral subs.


Israeli subs seem to have a strategic nuclear role, i.e. a retaliatory strike against Iran. Part of the controversial, recent German deal seems to be about keeping a sub in the Persian Gulf to keep Iran on its good behavior.
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doge

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Unread post09 Aug 2017, 10:38

http://english.pnn.ps/2017/08/09/three- ... g-on-gaza/
Army spokesperson also said that the F35 aircrafts were used for the first time in an attack on Gaza.

!?
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Unread post09 Aug 2017, 11:13

doge wrote:http://english.pnn.ps/2017/08/09/three-palestinians-wounded-in-israeli-shelling-on-gaza/
Army spokesperson also said that the F35 aircrafts were used for the first time in an attack on Gaza.

!?


Questionable source.

Jerusalem Post also said "F-35 were reported", but by whom? Haaretz and Times of Israel didn't mention aircraft models.

Most importantly IDF official channels did not report about aircraft either:

https://mobile.twitter.com/IDFSpokesper ... 4713980928

Unfortunately Israel MoD and IAF websites are void of news regarding this event.

Article with plenty of of vids:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-je ... et-strike/
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nutshell

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Unread post09 Aug 2017, 16:52

I talk directly from my personal experience (worked on OTO melara- Finemccanica; targetting and comms systems and maintenance).

Israelis are picky, stubborn, arrogant too but they only buy the stuff they think is best.

They dont give a **** of your british or german or american.
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Unread post16 Aug 2017, 01:15

Procurement a key priority for Israel's new air force chief
15 Aug 2017 Arie Egozi

"The appointment of Maj Gen Amikam Norkin as the Israeli air force's new commander could expedite some of its procurement plans, including for the Boeing KC-46A tanker, Lockheed Martin F-35 and longer-endurance unmanned air vehicles....

...The air force's most urgent decisions are related to the procurement of more F-35Is, beyond the 50 that are already included in signed contracts, purchasing KC-46A tankers and developing and buying long-endurance UAVs with multiple payloads. The service has also recently shown an interest in acquiring the short take-off and vertical landing variant of the F-35."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rc-440297/
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Unread post16 Aug 2017, 16:24

I say they buy a minimum of 25 B's, perhaps up to 50.

The A's will fly the strike on the Iranian nuclear reactor. The B's... God only knows. Perhaps point defense protecting Israel, in the event missiles/enemy aircraft knock out her airfields...
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