Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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weasel1962

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 11:09

Yah, what do these Israelis know...compared to corsair1963.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 11:22

weasel1962 wrote:Yah, what do these Israelis know...compared to corsair1963.



I know the F-35 is vastly more capable than any 4th Generation Fighter including the F-15EX/IA.


In addition we know the USAF didn't want the F-15EX. Yet, it's going to get it. :?


My point here is the same is true of the IDF/AF with the F-15IA....


Hell, same argument we heard back in the early 1980's. With people making a case for Newer Versions of the F-4 over the F-15 and F-16....

:doh:
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fang

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 12:57

Corsair1963 wrote:
fang wrote:It is a poor choice as the F-35 is vastly more capable and even cheaper!
Let's see it will be a few years before these new F-15EX/IA's would arrive. (2025+) When, they do they would have service life of 20-30 years. So, you think they will be a viable platform in the year 2045 or 2055!
Now if you want a stop-gap for a decade. Plenty, of second hand Eagles on the market. Which, Israel could easily upgrade....(not that either is a good option)

It's more complex than F-15IA vs F-35i.
The IAF want to buy a squadron of a brand new F-15IA but also to upgrade the existing F-15i squadron to IA standart.
On the same process to retire the old F-16C/F-15C and to remain with dual seater jets only which can use it's smart weapon.
It's a big varity of smart weapon which fit the dual seater F-15/F-16 but most of it does'nt fit the F-35i yet.
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fang

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 13:02

Corsair1963 wrote:It is a poor choice as the F-35 is vastly more capable and even cheaper!
Let's see it will be a few years before these new F-15EX/IA's would arrive. (2025+) When, they do they would have service life of 20-30 years. So, you think they will be a viable platform in the year 2045 or 2055!
Now if you want a stop-gap for a decade. Plenty, of second hand Eagles on the market. Which, Israel could easily upgrade....(not that either is a good option)

It's more complex than F-15IA vs F-35i.
The IAF want to buy a squadron of a brand new F-15IA but also to upgrade the existing F-15i squadron to IA standart.
On the same process to retire the old F-16C/F-15C and to remain with dual seater jets only which can use it's smart weapon.
It's a big varity of smart weapon which fit the dual seater F-15/F-16 but most of it does'nt fit the F-35i yet.
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 13:21

Corsair1963 wrote:This has been expected for sometime now...

Clearly, buying a squadron of F-15's under pressure from Washington. Just like the USAF....


Yet reports from the actual area say the only pressure was to actually buy the extra F-35 ! What do they know compared to you ?

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 30,00.html
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 13:27

Corsair1963 wrote:
optimist wrote:Well the f-15 carries a whopping 23000 lb. While the F-35 carries a measly 18000+lb.

It might just be political :doh:


In the "Real World" the F-15EX never carries 23,000 lbs. Just like it "NEVER" fly's at Mach 2.5. Honestly, how many times do we have to discuss this...


It's quite easy for the F-15EX to carry 23,000lb, just don't carry any external fuel and rely only on internal + CFT fuel which is still 23,000lb, both more than the F-35. It seems your F-15E 'real world' began and ended with Desert Storm payloads but Israel doesn't need EFTs to bomb Lebanon, Gaza or Syria, they are all on their doorstep. It obviously kills you when something other than F-35 gets bought, do you lose commission ? ;)
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steve2267

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 18:42

The Dutch gave a peak into the prowess of the Lightning when a pair of stubbies escorted four Vipers against eight defending Vipers. The defenders reportedly never saw the Lightnings, NOR the attacking F-16's. Plus the Lightnings used the Slammers from F-16's they were escorting to down the defending Vipers. This example describes the so-called wormole effect or something like that.

I have no idea the Israeli Air Force requirements. I hope they plan well, and purchase platforms and weapons to achieve a desired effect. On the other hand, maintaining a robust, local defense industrial base may come in to play. Maintaining that expertise is important.

But perhaps the Israelis figure they can defeat Natanz, and perhaps Fordow (or at least entomb Fordow by destroying all entrances) with GBU-28's. Lightnings escorting F-15's carrying GBU-28's gives them that capability now, not in 4-5 years when the GBU-28 may be cleared on the F-35I. Perhaps those clever Israeli's have modified the GBU-28, or developed their own GBU-28-like bomb, or something better.

The Israeli's are big boys playing by big boy rules. I have a sneaking suspicion they know what they are doing.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post04 Jul 2020, 06:58

Did a stelfy F-30 somfink aircrafts drop a 4th July package?
Iran declines to disclose cause of fire at Natanz nuclear site
04 Jul 2020 Al Jazeera English

"Iranian investigators have determined the cause of a fire at the Natanz nuclear plant, a spokesman for Iran's top security body said on Friday, while declining to immediately release details of the findings over "security reasons"....

...Iran's Atomic Energy Organisation initially reported an "incident" had occurred early on Thursday at Natanz, located in the desert in the central province of Isfahan. It later published a photo of a one-storey brick building with its roof and walls partly burned. A door hanging off its hinges suggested there had been an explosion inside the building.

The IAEA said none of its inspectors was at Natanz at the time of the fire and "that the location where the incident occurred does not contain nuclear materials"....

...Keyvan Khosravi, spokesman for the National Security Council, told IRNA news agency late on Friday that experts have "determined the main cause of the incident" but it "will be declared in due course for security reasons"...."

Photo: "© [WANA via Reuters]A view of a damaged building after a fire broke out at Iran's Natanz Nuclear Facility in Isfahan [WANA via Reuters]" http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tena ... 16jDbT.img


Source: http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/ira ... r-BB16jLMP
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blindpilot

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Unread post04 Jul 2020, 18:15

spazsinbad wrote:Did a stelfy F-30 somfink aircrafts drop a 4th July package?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-is ... sile-base/

<sarc on> Nope once again coincidence denies us the advantage of real data concerning F-35 performance. A flight of F-35's apparently took off with no in air refueling for the suburbs of Tehran, specificately the Parchin Military site, but ...
alas !!!! ....

Before we could find out if they actually had that range, and could slip the awesume powerful Tehran air defense network, it seems a "natural gas leak" somehow caused massive explosions at that critical well maintained military location.

"Later, Iranian Defense Ministry spokesman Davood Abdi blamed the blast on a leaking gas that he did not identify and said no one was killed in the explosion.

Satellite photos of the area, some 20 kilometers (12.5 miles) east of downtown Tehran, showed hundreds of meters (yards) of charred scrubland not seen in images of the area taken in the weeks ahead of the incident. The building near the char marks resembled the facility seen in the state TV footage."

Once again we simply cannot know the capabilities of the F-35 in range and stealth. some day perhaps ...
<sarc off>

FWIW,
BP
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spazsinbad

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Unread post04 Jul 2020, 19:05

Accidents will happen I guess. Expect Iranian officials to be fired. Expect DENIALS from both sides to continue forever.

Cyber Strike By Foreign Force Caused Iran Explosion: Israeli Experts 02 Jul 2020 Arie Egozi

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/07/cyb ... i-experts/
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